Men's Liberation

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This community is first and foremost a feminist community for men and masc people, but it is also a place to talk about men’s issues with a particular focus on intersectionality.


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Non-masculine perspectives are incredibly important in making sure that the lived experiences of others are present in discussions on masculinity, but please remember that this is a space to discuss issues pertaining to men and masc individuals. Be kind, open-minded, and take care that you aren't talking over men expressing their own lived experiences.



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The choice is clear. On one side, there’s the enlightened maleness embodied by Harris’s vice-presidential pick and her husband, Doug Emhoff. These are the good progressive dads, Rebecca Traister of New York magazine writes, the “nice men of the left” who do guy things like coach football but also manifest liberal and feminist virtues — like being “happily deferential” and “unapologetically supportive of women’s rights” and “committed to partnership” in marriage and politics alike. Walz especially is being held up all over as a paragon of liberal dadhood: “A regular guy,” Mona Charen of The Bulwark writes, “at a time when the country needs reminding that being a regular guy is actually pretty great.”

Then there is the other model, the dark side of the Y chromosome: the toxic masculinity of Donald Trump, the anti-cat-lady conservatism of JD Vance, all of them wrapped together in a package that Zack Beauchamp of Vox describes as “neo-patriarchy.” This is a worldview, he writes, that may claim to allow for more female agency than the older patriarchy but really just wants a “reversal of the feminist revolution,” in which men finally get to be he-men again while their wives stay home and rear four to seven kids.

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This is the first video in what will be a series of essays about sex. Although this video deals with issues of masculinity less so than others in the series will, I still thought it might be nice to post it here.

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Hope you enjoy this video I made.

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submitted 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) by [email protected] to c/[email protected]
 
 

Excellence is an art won by training and habituation. We do not act rightly because we have virtue or excellence, but we rather have those because we have acted rightly. We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act but a habit.

Introduction

tl;dr: Masculinity is often discussed as an abstract and timeless concept. This is not a useful approach to discussing masculinity. Rather, it should be rooted in the problems men face and the solutions they choose.

Masculinity is a contentious issue fraught with subtle rhetorical traps and zealous ideological ownership. When we talk about masculinity, we often fall victim to these pitfalls and argue at cross purposes without awareness. So, please forgive me for delaying the discussion of what I want to talk about to first frame the discussion. The purpose is to ensure that we are talking about the same thing.

Contemporary discussions of masculinity tend to be juxtaposed or contrasted with traditional hegemonic masculinity, which is deeply rooted in Christianity. My experience is that defenders of the latter make no distinction between men addressing modern problems, men handling Middle Age problems, nor men making sense of ancient problems. For them, manliness is a timeless ahistorical and acultural concept. This, I believe, stems from Christianity's enduring legacy.

However, I am no Christian and I pray to no god. When I discuss manliness, I am not appealing to religious ideals. While I will appeal to ancient history for conceptual insight, and other may appeals to religion for the same reason, my understanding of masculinity is rooted in the problems of today that men face, atheists and believe alike. The concept of masculinity I will shortly introduce is meant for the men of today, whatever "man" means and whatever today brings.

With that, let's begin.

Eudaimonia

tl;dr: Eudaimonia is about doing well. It's a morality of functional excellence that leads to a life well-lived and fulfillment.

Hopefully, many of us have heard of virtue ethics. In short, it's a morality of functional excellence. For Aristotle, its originator, virtue ethics was the study and careful application of traits of character that led to a life well-lived. This doesn't necessarily mean a pleasurable life, though pleasure is an important part. For example, eudaimonia rejects a life spent on video games, as fun as they might be. But a life spent pursuing ends that undermine the capacity of others to live eudaimonically is not virtuous either. Superb murderers are also not paradigms of virtue. Neither pure pleasure nor excellence in every capacity is the goal of life.

Aristotle believed that the virtues were practiced habits that became so ingrained in us that we'd have to put some effort into deviating from it. For example, I think back to when I was first working in a restaurant and could barely follow a recipe. I put considerable thought into making the menu's offerings. Over time, though, mashed potatoes could be made routinely while I thought about other things. I'd eventually receive compliments on a run o' the mill side dish like it was the main course. I became a virtuous mashed potato maker. For Aristotle, the practice of one's profession could lead to virtue in it. Virtuous shoemakers supplied virtuous soldiers and virtuous merchants alike.

Back to what I said above: virtue ethics is a morality of functional excellence. It answers the question of "How do I do this with excellence?"

Eudaimonic Masculinity

tl;dr: Eudaimonic masculinity is about performing masculinity in such a way that it leads to a life well-lived and fulfillment. The concept is specific to time and place, outcome-oriented, and relational. It's not answer but a framework to help guide men's judgements.

How, then, do we perform as excellent men?

This is the core question of my idea of masculinity. Note that this is a performative concept of masculinity. We are men because of how we act, not because of who we are. Nor is our manhood derived from unchangeable biological or genealogical characteristics. While such conceptions of masculinity exist, they do not provide useful guidance.

For a man to act, he must do so in the presently where he is. My concept of masculinity is specific to time and place and everything associated with those things. To live well as a man in modern America will differ both between ancient Spain and even 50 years ago in modern America. The problems men face vary in each case and addressing them such that solutions leads to a sense of fulfillment and happiness is what eudaimonic masculinity is all about. It is outcome-oriented.

My concept of masculinity is also relational. Just as new line cook learns his trade-specific virtue by cooking and being provided feedback from his supervisor and the restaurant's customers, a man must learn to navigate his life with feedback from his own sense of self and from others with whom he interacts. Contrary to popular belief, men need other people, especially other men, on which to lean and from which to learn.

Ultimately, eudaimonic masculinity is an overarching framework to help men make decisions about to how to live a good life. It won't provide easy answers, but helps guide thinking and weigh considerations. Being a man is difficult these days, especially as our culture changes rapidly, but that's no excuse for failure. As men, we should always strive for excellence.

It Starts with Problems

tl;dr: To live well must answer today's problems with solutions tailored for it. And men have many problems today.

Problems are the bread and butter of masculinity, and men have many. Before I layout some, I'd like to re-emphasize that your experience as a man is both individual to you, your culture, your country, your socio-economic status, expectations of you, etc. The problems I lay out are general trends but I'll point out some of mine personal problems as an example.

Generally, young boys and men in America lack education achievements; our wages have declined and we're more likely to experience job losses during recessions; we're lonely and isolated, which leads to deaths of despair that disproportionately affect white men who have not earned college degrees. Some young men are so fed up with the employment contest that they've become NEETs, removing themselves entirely from the workforce. Within each of the previously described categories of problems, there are a bunch of smaller problems that give rise to the overall trends. And still, there are other general trends that I have not mentioned.

Personally, I'm a married man that has felt both lonely and isolated within my relationship and outside of it. In my thirty-sixth year, I have zero friends outside of work and one friend at work. And while I could pursue that friendship outside of work, I for whatever reason do not. As for my marriage, many times I find it difficult to empathize with my partner. While I have no problem doing the "gendered" work of cleaning and cooking, I find myself often weighing my contributions to the relationship and its maintenance over her seeming lack of achievable action items, as if the strength of our relationship is dependent on who cleans the house and how clean it is. And then, of course, I have other personal problems of my own.

Answering the problems in our lives as men, searching for the solutions, or more likely on-going approaches, that fit our circumstances is where eudaimonic masculinity starts.

Applying Eudaimonic Masculinity

tl;dr: Men can find guidance in role models, religion, or science, or just choose to roll with the punches. And men can also just talk with others.

To recount, we have general problems affecting men and personal problems, and there may be considerable overlap. Having at least identified them, now we can look to the eudaimonic masculinity framework for how to navigate those problems. But just as there are many ways to become a virtuous mashed potato maker, there are many ways of becoming an excellent man.

One of the most reliable ways is to find yourself a good role model, fictional or real. Our evaluation of other men as role models should focus firstly, on what problems they have and, secondly, the outcomes of their solutions. Back to the fundamental question of my concept of masculinity, did the problems they face lead to performing an excellent version of manhood? One way to know is if whether they are likely to end up in jail or otherwise on the wrong side of the law. Generally, time spent in jail is due to social transgressions. This is why I cannot recommend Andrew Tate as a role model. On other hand, the recommendation against jail is not universal. Perhaps you can think of circumstances where jail time is both justified and fulfilling?

Of course, merely not going to jail isn't enough to make someone a virtuous man. They need to be fulfilled and living well. Happiness is a component of that, but it's not everything. Does a man have regrets about how they acted even if it led to a happy outcome? How do others feel about how he faced his problems with them? Do they have regrets or other problems deriving from his decision?

Men young and old alike may find that they have many role models, each for a different situation or problem. For example, I aspire to write like Obama's speechwriters to develop thoughtful eloquence; I aspire to be as knowledgeable as Noam Chomsky; I aspire to do rhetorical analysis like a blogger I read religiously; I aspire to look like my 26 year-old self one day again, when I was neither particularly fat nor muscular; I aspire to have the peace of mind of a Buddha and the open heart of Guanyin. In no way will I ever meet all of these aspirations, but that was never the point. The point is striving to live well.

Another way is to seek out the science and other guidance. My concept of masculinity does not privilege science over religion or vice versa. Religion is a valuable and enduring source of comfort and guidance to many, including myself. I just mentioned Buddha. When science and religious teachings differ, a man must choose for himself which he believes is more valuable. However, religious guidance often focuses achieving a desirable afterlife, while eudaimonic masculinity is concerned with this life. But ultimately, it is up to the man to choose.

To endure the consequences of our actions is ultimately the only way for us to improve as men and develop our virtues. Whether we choose to model ourselves after others, look for expertise, or make a choice and roll with the punches, we must face the repercussions. What separates eudaimonic masculinity from some other approaches is that my concept is both prudent before, critical during, and reflective after our choices. Are we thinking 'correctly' about the situation to begin with? Are we responding 'appropriately'? Is this what we expected? What could we have done better? How do others feel about my decision and what is the appropriate weight of their concerns and feelings? Thought processes like these are what lead to a life well lived.

One of the biggest decisions I made when I was young was moving out of my father's house. When I brought it up to him he said it would be a huge mistake because I couldn't save as much money if I were paying rent. Technically, he was 100% correct. But I realized that I wasn't concerned with saving money so much as just getting away from the parent-child relationship that subordinated my concerns to his. I moved out and it was everything I thought it'd be. I could make my own choices without the anxiety of his oversight. That's not say that I didn't love my father, but that as a young man, I had to make a choice that seemed monumental at the time and experience the consequences for myself.

One more thing, though. This section has focused on making choices individually, but that's not how men must make choices; there's no law of individual decision-making for us. We can always ask others, especially other men, about what they think, how they'd approach our situation. As married men, some of us probably should ask our partner what they think, too. While they may few and far between, men's groups may also offer places to seek advice. Personally, I'm increasingly coming to understand I am not alone as a man, and should be far more active in turning to others for insight. I wholeheartedly recommend it for others as well. But, again, how do you feel about my advice and how much do you think you should weight it?

Developing the Eudaimonic Masculinity

tl;dr: I didn't mention specific virtues intentionally. What're you stories? What do you think of the concept?

I've tried to avoid mentioning specific virtues. As I said earlier, we face different problems and our solutions should be tailored to our situation. What matters is that we act in ways that we are ultimately fulfilled and pleased with how we've lived. The less we talk about masculinity as a timeless abstract concept, the more I think we can get to developing into virtuous men.

This is where I'd like to ask for your stories as men, whatever that means to you. What was your problem? How did you think about it? What approach did you take to that problem? What was the outcome? Was it effective in the way you thought it'd be? Do you think any general virtues can be drawn from your experience?

In any case, if you read this entire post, thank you. I'd also like your input on what you think of the concept itself.

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One takeaway from this TED Talk is that Title IX, rather than balancing the playing field for women, tilted it against men. Are there any clear solutions?

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Eric Bandholz is the founder of Beardbrand. His newsletter and YouTube channel have been great sources of healthy masculinity. Here is a newsletter he sent out today.

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FRIENDSHIPS

There is this Venn diagram for many men over thirty – one circle is for "friendships where you can be vulnerable." The other circle is for "friends who live close to you." Sadly, the circles do not overlap.

Over the years, I have developed many great friendships with incredible men. But as life happens, distance comes between those friendships. Suddenly, you’re back at square one and trying to build another strong relationship. Commonly, those new connections aren’t just right, and you can only keep it to surface-level pleasantries.

I’ve felt alone in this world many times. I needed a friend who could understand my work challenges, my relationship challenges, or my parenting challenges and could discuss them over a beer in person.

I had no release, and it only led to darkness.

Fortunately, right now, I feel I have it as good as it gets in today’s world. No, I can’t walk down a few houses to a good friend, but I have several in Austin. No, I can’t usually be spontaneous, but many are down to grab lunch at a moment’s notice.

I talked to my dad about how hard it is to have friendships as an adult man, and he shared a similar sentiment. I know this happens to men of all generations.

WHAT CAN YOU DO ABOUT IT?

This past week, I went to Olympic National Park to sleep in a cold-ass tent for three nights and test our new deodorant prototype.

This trip is an annual event put on by my good friend, Will Roman of Chisos. It’s approximately 15 like-minded guys from Austin and around the States. I know about half of them, and I get to know the others. We disconnect from technology from families and spend much time sharing our current challenges (and a little bit of roasting each other). Basically, we can let loose, know that we’re in good company who won’t judge, and build stronger relationships.

WHAT ARE THE LOGISTICS?

Step 1: Many months in advance, find three consecutive nights in a beautiful park. We’ve found majestic environments create more intense experiences. It’s also nice to have a bathroom.Step 2: Set the values for the group and start recruiting people. It’s more enticing if you can handle food & water. Include a fee to cover those costs. Plan on a couple of last-minute cancellations.Step 3: Create an online document with trip details, gear needed, contact information, and attendee arrival/departure information.Step 4: Start an email thread for those committed to help start conversations and allow other newbies to get to know others digitally.Step 5: Meet up in nature and enjoy the time together. Have one or two hikes planned, and leave the schedule mostly open and flexible.Step 6: Repeat next year.

DON’T BE AFRAID TO LEAD

People don’t know if you’re looking for this type of experience. Sometimes, you need to take a risk and be the person to create the world you want to be part of. Most people will say "no," but if you can get a few core people on board, you can leverage their friendships and network.

Be sure to set expectations. You can make the event whatever you want—friend roasting, spirituality, yoga, fitness, beer drinking, fishing, etc. (or maybe all of the above).

What’s important is that you do something like this regularly.

There’s no reason that you tackle the world’s challenges alone. These events will help you close that Venn diagram and can help you make friends who are physically and emotionally close.

Keep on growing!

Eric BandholzFounder, Beardbrand

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submitted 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) by [email protected] to c/[email protected]
 
 

This discussion was inspired by discussion on this post.

Toxic man: oh guess I am just gunna keep doing what I am doing if you aren’t going to tell me what to do.

The reason this comes up is that masculinity is largely based around externally conferred social status. You have to constantly be doing something to maintain an image of masculinity. Often this means some sort of social or physical violence in the right time or place (beat up the mugger to defend your partner, call out your boss when you're being treated unfairly, put rival men in their place). Just as frequently, however, it is the expectation of a certain amount of self sacrifice (paying for meals, military service).

What they don't understand is how anyone can expect them to maintain their social status when they are avoiding this role that they have been explicitly shown that there will be consequences if they fail to meet. The answer is simple: once you're out of the masculinity rat race, you're out. By refusing to take part in the hierarchy of dominance you will eventually be subject to a more general and, frankly, human set of standards.

The only problem is that all of these pressures are external in the first place and this whole dynamic creates strong social gender boundaries. It is very easy for a lot of men to look at their social circles and see exclusively people who punish them for a failure to live up to a masculine ideal.

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