this post was submitted on 25 May 2024
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History

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Vietnam under Chinese rule or Bắc thuộc (北屬, lit. "belonging to the north") (111 BC–939, 1407–1428) refers to four historical periods when several portions of modern-day Northern Vietnam was under the rule of various Chinese dynasties. Bắc thuộc in Vietnamese historiography is traditionally considered to have started in 111 BC, when the Han dynasty conquered Nanyue (Vietnamese "Nam Việt") and lasted until 939, when the Ngô dynasty was founded. A fourth, relatively brief, 20-year rule by the Ming dynasty during the 15th century is usually excluded by historians in their discussion of the main, almost continuous, period of Chinese rule from 111 BC to 939 AD.

The four periods of Chinese rule did not correspond to the modern borders of Vietnam, but were mainly limited to the area around the Red River Delta and adjacent areas. During the first three periods of Chinese rule, the pre-Sinitic indigenous culture was centered in the northern part of modern Vietnam, in the alluvial deltas of the Hong, Cả and Mã Rivers.

Elements of Chinese culture such as language, religion, art, and way of life constituted an important component of traditional Vietnamese culture until modernity.

Periods of Chinese rule

First Era of Northern Domination: 111 BC–AD 40

The first period of Bắc thuộc is traditionally considered to have started following the Western Han's victory in the Han–Nanyue War. It ended with the brief revolt of the Trưng sisters.

Second Era of Northern Domination: AD 43–544

Chinese rule was restored after the Trung sisters' rebellion. The second period of Chinese rule was ended by the revolt of Lý Bôn, who took advantage of the internal disorder of the waning Liang dynasty. Lý Bôn subsequently founded the Early Lý dynasty, with the official dynastic name "Vạn Xuân" (萬春).

Third Era of Northern Domination: AD 602–905

The Sui dynasty reincorporated Vietnam into China following the Sui–Early Lý War. This period saw the entrenchment of mandarin administration in Vietnam. The third period of Chinese rule concluded following the collapse of the Tang dynasty and the subsequent defeat of the Southern Han armada by Ngô Quyền at the Battle of Bạch Đằng. Ngô Quyền later proclaimed the Ngô dynasty.

Fourth Era of Northern Domination: AD 1407–1428

Vietnam was brought under the control of China following the Ming dynasty's defeat of the short-lived Hồ dynasty. The fourth period of Chinese rule ended when the Lam Sơn uprising led by Lê Lợi emerged successful. Lê Lợi then reestablished the Đại Việt kingdom (大越) under the new Lê dynasty.

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[–] [email protected] 11 points 6 months ago (1 children)

Scorching fucking hot take but I think I’m on to something here

Regarding the man vs bear debate (which you’d probably know about if you’re as online as me). A couple dweebs are saying “This is why men have such a high suicide rate”

I honestly think men have such a high suicide rate because they’ve oppressed all emotion in the name of conquest and domination throughout history that they’d rather destroy one final thing than do the slightest bit of reflection

Whoops no empathy from me 🤷‍♀️

[–] [email protected] 10 points 6 months ago (2 children)

Shitty take.

men have such a high suicide rate because they’ve oppressed all emotion

This is forced on boys by a patriarchal society. We are bullied to supress our emotions and the pressure to "be a man" is what drives men to suicide. All animals are driven to cultivate a stable and prosperous environment for themselves and their offspring. That desire can be perverted into what you call "conquest" but I doubt that is even the default state for men even after the societal bullying that upholds patriarchy.

Men are victims of patriarchy too.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 6 months ago

Bell hooks devotes a lot of pages to this, how the first thing the patriarchy has to do is beat the compassion and empathy out of little boys.

And there's no solution on an individual level. Even if you do get in touch with your emotions, many men don't get any emotional support from anyone around them, except maybe their partner. No one asks you how you feel, no one asks you about your day. Even if you explictly ask for comfort and support, at least in my experience i get blank looks and the impression many people don't know how to parse what's happening, the idea of a man wanting or needing emotional support just isn't there. The "this is why men commit suicide" dweebs don't get it, they're still incels who think women rejected them and cannot or will not look up, take a step back, and realize that patriarchy programs everyone in ways that are difficult to see if you're not looking in to the system from outside. Women are just as enmeshed in the system and shaped by the system.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 6 months ago (2 children)

But see the point is that other cultures don’t suffer from this nearly as much as the west-it is deeply embedded in the institutions and culture and will continue as long as Anglos have any amount of influence whatsoever

I’m really sick and tired of talking to guys about this because they’ll automatically put their emotions over a woman’s fear of getting SA’d or murdered. Yes the patriarchy hurts everyone, but the point remains that empathy should be withheld until some reflection is done.

You can’t save everyone and really must put your foot down at some point

[–] [email protected] 4 points 6 months ago

other cultures don’t suffer from this nearly as much as the west

I'm gonna need to to back this up with some examples because I really cant think of many cultures where patriarchy isn't deeply imbedded.

I’m really sick and tired of talking to guys about this because they’ll automatically put their emotions over a woman’s fear of getting SA’d or murdered

You can say murderers and r*pists should all KTS and you wont get any argument from anyone but the men who are killing themselves due to toxic gender roles are not the same ones SAing and murdering women.

You can’t save everyone and really must put your foot down at some point

and so you draw the line at gender? nah. bad take.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 6 months ago

I think it might be the role of different folks to try and be a kind hand and heart to these men who are on the cusp of understanding. Men who already understand are much better vehicles for helping educate other men on these topics as they're less liable to be hurt by the words or actions of these other men. I don't say that to excuse how men can behave; but instead that clearly there needs to be a mechanism for some of these men to have somebody to talk about this stuff with.