this post was submitted on 21 Jul 2023
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GenZedong

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It's fascinating to me how the same people who like to do purity tests for China or Vietnam claiming they're not actually communist are also the ones who'll defend places like US or Canada saying yeah it's not perfect, but it's the ideal of the system that matters.

It's such an incredible example of cognitive dissonance. These people able to recognize that their own system doesn't live up to the ideal they have in their heads, but still treat it as a valid interpretation of the idea, but when it comes to a system they dislike then the same logic doesn't apply all of a sudden.

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[โ€“] [email protected] 6 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I don't like to speculate as a matter of principle, but given what I've seen in my own evolution and what I can see traces of in some others, I suspect fear underlies a lot of it, as well as pride; fear of the implications of what it means and pride in not wanting to lose the idealized self image of western supremacy. If the US, for example, is genuinely terrible to the core on a fundamental state foundation level, that means a lot of pretty big change is necessary and change can be scary. And further, if a place like China or Vietnam is actually just a genuinely better system on a fundamental level and has better QOL for its people, that means the west is not only not superior, it's not even on an equal level of political competency. Instead, it's actually lower and in the capitalist caste socialization of "everything is a rung on a ladder," that means the west is part of the "gross/bad class."

People don't have to see it this way though. They can see it as it's not something to be afraid of, but a wakeup call that what's being done is not working for most people and never has; they can consider the notion of major upheaval as an opportunity for fantastic expansion of the possibilities they've previously had presented to them, within which can carry drastic healing, improved quality of life, both personal and collective empowerment. They can also see the pride thing not as a designation of lesser nation, but as a designation of better or worse quality of life and empowerment and so on. It's important that people unlearn the notions of it all being about caste, and who is and isn't "superior." Socialist projects doing better for their people are superior in the sense of quality of life, people power, etc., not in the sense of some colonizer-centric mindset of civil and savage.

[โ€“] [email protected] 15 points 1 year ago

I think you hit the nail on the head there. Fear plays a huge role in this, and it's generally what keeps people going along with the system even when they know it's not working for them. Most people want their lives to be predictable, they might not like their jobs and their overall situation, but at least they know where their next paycheck and their next meal are coming from. You go in, do the work you know is expected from you, get your pay, and repeat. Losing that is really scary, and it's a big part of the reason people tend to stay on at jobs they hate. A huge social change has a lot of unknowns associated with it, and people don't want to take the the plunge to risk losing what little stability they have. I imagine this becomes many times compounded for people who have kids or other dependents they're responsible for. I imagine this is why there's the whole trope that older people become more conservative. The other aspect you mention is also important. Admitting that the system that oppresses you is not the best possible and that there are better alternatives out there is a hard pill to swallow.

I do hope that more people start looking at social upheaval from a positive perspective as well. I think we do need a vision of a positive future that inspires people towards change. This has to be the basis for an serious socialist movement. It's not just about improving current conditions slightly, it's about building a whole new society that's more just and that empowers people to reach higher potential.