cross-posted from: https://lemmy.world/post/20134417
this post was submitted on 24 Sep 2024
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So the X accounts belonged to legitimate political opponents, they weren't spreading disinformation?
I don't know about the judicial system in Brazil but they don't seem that corrupted...
How do you feel about the "Don't say gay" bill? Because that's exactly the sort of abuse I'm talking about.
What don't say gay bill in Brazil are you talking about?
I'm discussing principles - they aren't limited to Brazil. If you want to explicitly only discuss the exact situation in Brazil then this isn't the thread for you.
This thread is specifically about Brazil. Did you not read the meme?
This thread is the one I started with my top-level comment that I invite you to read to know what you're replying to.
And just a bit of an FYI - people can discuss components of an article that don't specifically relate to every part of the article. For example - I could raise the issue of "freedom of speech" and how it relates to any nation generally without discussing the specific case in Brazil. Isn't that fun and interesting! Or would you rather I just circle-jerk "hur hur musk bad"?
As you can see the topics you tried to bring up nobody is agreeing with you. Because it doesn't make sense to bring them up in this post.
So you do just want a circle-jerk!
Huuur durrr Elon bad! Suck it space-man!
That better? Will I get the juicy "likes" now?
Poor baby
MuSk BaD!!!!
k
I don't want the government deciding who is or is not a "legitimate political opponent". That double-edged-sword swings both ways and cuts very easily.
I think there are a few simple criteria to discriminate between legitimate opponents and others: spreading disinformation, bad faith, populism, the absence of a coherent political discourse, etc. If a government identifies illegitimate opponents based on these criteria, I'm ok with that.
So, what makes you think these accounts were legitimate political opponents?
Neat - let's go with that.
According to Trump the MSM is "fake news" and thus spreading disinformation. We'll shutdown CNN and MSNBC immediately and levy heavy fines on other stations that continue to spread dangerous content. It's also a fact that he won the 2020 election and people claiming otherwise are also spreading dangerous misinformation that threatens our democracy - they should be silenced as well - to protect the nation.
Good plan. This will go well.
It's funny that you never even try to defend any of these accounts. The best way to show that Brazil is in the wrong would be to show that the people being banned were posting true statements.
Why would you think that I would? Have you not understood literally anything I've been saying?
What a remarkably simple view of the world you have. It's like you think this is a sitcom plot. Do you want Musk to wear black and the judge to wear white so that you have an easier time recognizing who is the villain?
As I said in my original post - both sides can be wrong. One side being wrong doesn't make the other side right.
Your argument that other people are engaging in black and white thinking when you take the position that the possibility of injustice makes justice unobtainable is funny.
Explain how that's my position. Please use references to support your argument.
Because that's not my position. Nor have I stated it as my position. I recommend searching for the word "risk" when reading my prior comments.
EDIT: Oh - sorry... I guess I'm just off-topic in here. ELON BAD LOL
Sure: you disregard this specific case and only bring up other hypothetical cases to prove why this is unjust. Like you just did in the comment I replied to.
And you extrapolated that to "the possibility of injustice makes justice unobtainable".
If you really care - and I suspect you don't because you're just another lemmykin who just wants to jump on somebody who disagrees with you and "be right" - I'm saying the risk involved with state-sponsored censorship is higher than the risk associated with allowing misinformation to be spread.
This is why I say the original case largely doesn't matter - because my position doesn't depend on the veracity of the claims being made. I'm arguing about what a state should and should not be allowed to do. Because the state is sometimes led by people who define truth very differently from how I would want.
You think this translates to "the possibility of injustice makes justice unobtainable"???
Yeah, it's a black and white position. You specifically are saying the state is unable to obtain justice because of the "risk". You preclude the possibility of justice being obtained. I'm pretty amazed you can find so many ways to say the same thing and not realize that. But hey, I'm sure it's just everybody else being irrational right?
Do you think "black and white" just means that I have an opinion that I feel is correct?
How did you even possibly get this from what I've said? I feel that allowing free speech is justice.
Not one person has yet actually asked me to clarify my position. You've all only told me what I really mean. So yes - it is everyone else being irrational.
This is how people figure out how each other think, calm down.
It does seem you are saying governments shouldnt be permitted to seek justice against misinformation because doing so puts a greater injustice on the public as a whole.
Thats me rephrasing your point from earlier to see if I understand it right, so if I have it wrong feel free to explain.
Please clarify your position?
...crickets...
So.... After being asked by multiple people to clarify your position, you're not going to after all?
Cool story, bro.
You seem to believe that Trump saying "fake news!" is enough to consider that something is actually fake news. Anyone with a bit of critical thinking can verify this kind of affirmation and decide for themselves whether Trump is right or wrong. There's a difference between a truth and a belief, but your argument seems to equate the two.
If a judge in Brazil says an account should be banned because it spreads disinformation, I can go and check what was posted and decide if it's indeed disinformation. Now I might not have time to verify every affirmation like this so I tend to trust the judicial system of any country by default, unless I have reason to believe they can't be trusted.