this post was submitted on 25 Nov 2024
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I would suffer a stroke and more, too, if my country wanted to deport my ass to a third world country like the USA.
The legal process in USA is not trustworthy, it's been shown time and again that USA punish people with extreme sentences to make an example of them. USA even tried to kidnap Kim Dotcom bypassing normal New Zealand procedure.
I have no particular sympathies for Kim Dotcom, but the way USA behaves in cases of "national interest" is scary.
Never forget Aaron Swartz! Who was driven to suicide, for copying data he had legal access to.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aaron_Swartz
Another great example - Edward Snowden.
Does anyone really believe that the USA will ever...ever give him a fair trial for what he did? The guy was smart to flee the country. Ah yes, let's give a fair trial to a guy that just jerked the curtain back to prove that yes, Americans are being spied on by the government. That'll go nicely! /s
Do you think government employees should be able to break NDAs and publish state secrets without consequences? I support what Snowden did, but he is now a criminal and must be prosecuted as such.
According to the US, torture is legal when it's done by the US, which is a single example of how the federal US law does not reflect what is right, what is good, what is just.
When it comes to government transparency? Yes, undoubtedly.
The criminals are those in government, but they own the system and will never go after themselves.
Yes, that’s why there are avenues for whistleblowers. Publicly sharing classified information is not one of them.
What’s the point of this statement? So because we can’t prosecute some criminals we shouldn’t prosecute anybody?
He tried those first, and only after nothing happened doing that, did he go public.
To stay silent about illegal activities is actually complicity. So in principle it would also have been illegal to stay silent!
He did not try those avenues, as there would be a record of it.
https://irp.fas.org/congress/2016_rpt/hpsci-snowden.pdf
Oh course, now you will say they are lying and they’re hiding the fact that he went through the proper channels.
The paper states:
But what does that actually mean? When he actually went through the propper channels for his position? Department of Defense is a VERY wide organisation, and allegedly he did just that.
Claiming he us not a whistleblower, because a VERY specific procedure needs to be followed is just a legal cop out. It's an ambiguous law that can be used to burry shit indefinitely, and bent to be applied as they wish if people go public.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-switch/wp/2014/03/07/snowden-i-raised-nsa-concerns-internally-over-10-times-before-going-rogue/
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/edward-snowden-didnt-email-surveillance-concerns-officials/
It means exactly that. File a complaint with the DOD or IC IG’s office.
Here you are saying the same wrong information for the third time. He does not qualify as a whistleblower because be publicly leaked classified information, there’s nothing ambiguous about that.
Right. He was able to copy millions of classified documents but forgot to get copies of the same emails that prove he raised concerns through the proper channels. This is the only email that there’s record of, and it was not even submitted by Snowden, but by the NSA.
As a veteran, and former/ kinda current Captain, of the USN, yes. Provided that they fall under the protections for whistleblowers, which both Edward Snowden, and Chelsea Manning fell into rather neatly, according to US federal laws.
Illegal orders are illegal. Even the UCMJ agrees with that stance.
Yeah I’m sure you believe that. How many documents did you leak? You obviously didn’t use your security clearance to leak classified documents, which makes you a hypocrite. “Do as I say, not as I do”. Also, being a former captain doesn’t really make your opinion more valuable than anybody else’s.
Then you should know that publicly revealing classified information is not considered whistleblowing under the law. So I guess that changes your “Yes” to a “No”, since it was a “Yes” provided the statement that followed.
It looks like you’re not well informed on the subject. Snowden didn’t just say bad things were happening and that the US was spying on citizens (which would’ve still been illegal anyways). He stole 1.5 million classified documents, although he says that he hasn’t shared them.
The truth is that whether you like it or not, Snowden is a criminal who knew what he was doing.
I was a Navy Nuclear Power Program Electronics Technician Instructor. All the documents that I had access to were well known in the civilian zeitgeist before I was born.
Snowden may have done something illegal, though my interpretation of both the UCMJ and Federal Whistleblower laws, as well as my recollection of what he released, says that you are a corporatist that is just salty that your favorite MIC corporation got outed for breaking federal laws.
Manning didn't break the law and still served an illegal sentence, so I will give Snowden and Asange the benefit of the doubt.
I'm sick and tired of US propaganda, much less the international versions.
Trump stole far more classified documents and that is just fine according to the law
Provides nothing to the discussion but an insane reach (I already said I agree with what Snowden did) and an insult.
Here you are saying incorrect information again. I repeat, under the US law, leaking classified information to the public is not considered whistleblowing. Manning broke the law.
I’m tired of all propaganda, including pro and anti-US propaganda. The US has enough issues as it is and there are enough reasons to condemn the current system. Making things up and defending criminal activities doesn’t help anybody.
Trump did not publicly leak any classified documents, he simply took them with him. It’s still illegal and was prosecuted for it, but this is not comparable to Manning or Snowden. By the way, Biden did the same thing.
The American People deserve the knowledge of what their government is doing. For too long has the government operate in crooked practices that only have made the people grow contempt and distrustful towards.
If the government is going to take, give back, take again and give back our rights while allowing itself to be influenced by corporate interests. It's fair game.
That is true, but unfortunately that’s not the law. It’s like smoking marihuana when it was illegal. Everyone knew it was harmless, but the law said to not smoke it so you shouldn’t. If you allow Snowden to break his confidentiality without consequences, you’re giving green light to everyone who wants to give classified information to foreign nations.
But it’s not fair game. The fact that it’s the right thing to do is not related to the fact that it’s illegal. You can say that Snowden did the right thing and that he’s a criminal that deserves prosecution. Both of those things can be true at the same time, and they are.
If you want to look for unjust prosecution, you look at Julian Assange’s case, not Snowden.
I'd like for you to try and justify all of the times that the U.S Government has broken the law. Laws that they've made and international law, unapologetically. Also, you're making some very weak comparisons. Snowden isn't like Trump.
I never justify breaking the law. Everyone who breaks the law must be prosecuted and I never said otherwise. Unfortunately it’s hard to prosecute governments, specially from superpowers like the US.
At this point I believe you responded to the wrong person, because I also haven’t even mentioned Trump.
And judicial murderer Carmen Ortiz.
Absolutely, why wasn't she ever prosecuted? Why is it legal for a prosecutor to threaten to ruin peoples lives and put them to jail indefinitely?
Basically all they had on him, was trespassing at the most!!
Indeed, never forget Aaron Swartz
It's technically second world, now that is aligned with russia
Correct, but those terms only applies during the cold War.
Oh...oh no...
...wait a minute...
Mom: We have cold war at home.
Or just be really obese, that'll, that'll do it too.