this post was submitted on 28 Nov 2023
727 points (97.4% liked)

politics

19148 readers
2012 users here now

Welcome to the discussion of US Politics!

Rules:

  1. Post only links to articles, Title must fairly describe link contents. If your title differs from the site’s, it should only be to add context or be more descriptive. Do not post entire articles in the body or in the comments.

Links must be to the original source, not an aggregator like Google Amp, MSN, or Yahoo.

Example:

  1. Articles must be relevant to politics. Links must be to quality and original content. Articles should be worth reading. Clickbait, stub articles, and rehosted or stolen content are not allowed. Check your source for Reliability and Bias here.
  2. Be civil, No violations of TOS. It’s OK to say the subject of an article is behaving like a (pejorative, pejorative). It’s NOT OK to say another USER is (pejorative). Strong language is fine, just not directed at other members. Engage in good-faith and with respect! This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban.
  3. No memes, trolling, or low-effort comments. Reposts, misinformation, off-topic, trolling, or offensive. Similarly, if you see posts along these lines, do not engage. Report them, block them, and live a happier life than they do. We see too many slapfights that boil down to "Mom! He's bugging me!" and "I'm not touching you!" Going forward, slapfights will result in removed comments and temp bans to cool off.
  4. Vote based on comment quality, not agreement. This community aims to foster discussion; please reward people for putting effort into articulating their viewpoint, even if you disagree with it.
  5. No hate speech, slurs, celebrating death, advocating violence, or abusive language. This will result in a ban. Usernames containing racist, or inappropriate slurs will be banned without warning

We ask that the users report any comment or post that violate the rules, to use critical thinking when reading, posting or commenting. Users that post off-topic spam, advocate violence, have multiple comments or posts removed, weaponize reports or violate the code of conduct will be banned.

All posts and comments will be reviewed on a case-by-case basis. This means that some content that violates the rules may be allowed, while other content that does not violate the rules may be removed. The moderators retain the right to remove any content and ban users.

That's all the rules!

Civic Links

Register To Vote

Citizenship Resource Center

Congressional Awards Program

Federal Government Agencies

Library of Congress Legislative Resources

The White House

U.S. House of Representatives

U.S. Senate

Partnered Communities:

News

World News

Business News

Political Discussion

Ask Politics

Military News

Global Politics

Moderate Politics

Progressive Politics

UK Politics

Canadian Politics

Australian Politics

New Zealand Politics

founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] [email protected] 46 points 1 year ago (3 children)

I wonder what their definition of "support" is and how they plan on using that as a defense.

[–] [email protected] 35 points 1 year ago

Or what their definition of “defend” is, and how they plan to use that as support.

[–] [email protected] 12 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Well. I mean he didn't literally carry the constitution around. So he wasn't supporting it that way.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 1 year ago

The Constitution wasn't a foetus. Republican support ends at birth.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

Looks like the founding fathers fucked up, and the writers of the 14th amendment didn't catch it.

The oaths of office for the Senate, House of Representatives, Supreme Court, and all civil and military offices except the presidency include the requirement to "support" the constitution. Even the vice presidency requires it, but the presidency does not.

I don't think this distinction is particularly relevant. I don't think the "previously swore an oath" requirement is particularly relevant. The "insurrection" part should disqualify him, and the Colorado judge ruled that he did, in fact, commit insurrection.

I am curious whether he ever made a campaign speech or other public statement about the constitution, and used the word "support".

[–] [email protected] 8 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

"I am curious whether he ever made a campaign speech or other public statement about the constitution, and used the word “support”."

Knowing him it was probably more like "I love our Beautiful Constitution™ really, very good stuff, Great Constitution. I would touch that Constitution, you know they let you when you're famous, that Constitution is the best they say, the best Constitution in the world (I don't support it) the Democrats though, they want to take Our Beautiful Constitution™ and make it Communism! Venezuela and eating rats! It's what Disgusting Democrats love to do. Anyway, such a Beautiful Constitution, really the best, maybe the best of all time they say. Never supported it though."

[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I just thought of something. Every officer of the US except the president is obligated to take an oath to support the constitution. 5 USC §3331

Read the 14th amendment again:

No person shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress, or elector of President and Vice-President, or hold any office, civil or military, under the United States, or under any State, who, having previously taken an oath, as a member of Congress, or as an officer of the United States, or as a member of any State legislature, or as an executive or judicial officer of any State, to support the Constitution of the United States, shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof. But Congress may by a vote of two-thirds of each House, remove such disability.

Trump was found to be an insurrectionist.

Every member of the electoral college is obligated to take an oath to support the constitution. Any of them providing "aid and comfort" to insurrectionist Trump is barred from serving as an elector. They can't cast a vote for Trump, because doing so would be giving him "aid or comfort".

So even if Trump can't be barred from service, all of his electors can be. With no members of the electoral college able to vote for him, he can't be elected.

By the same argument, if he is elected, any state or federal civil or military officer who follows his orders would be giving "aid or comfort", immediately disqualifying themself from their position.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago

Just you wait and see. Bet everything I know on it. Come November every trumpet will be tooting, "it was just a little insurrection."