this post was submitted on 21 Jan 2024
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142
Do EV's actually do anything beneficial for the planet? (lemmy.today)
submitted 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) by [email protected] to c/[email protected]
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I've seen a lot of posts here on Lemmy, specifically in the "fuck cars" communities as to how Electric Vehicles do pretty much nothing for the Climate, but I continue to see Climate activists everywhere try pushing so, so hard for Electric Vehicles.

Are they actually beneficial to the planet other than limiting exhaust, or is that it? or maybe exhaust is a way bigger problem?

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[–] [email protected] 3 points 10 months ago

Pretty much; although, (more importantly IMO) it also removes their economic support from oil companies. GHG's are still produced when obtaining lithium for the batteries, aluminium for the body, etc. There's as well the break and tyre particles that are still major pollutants regardless... despite all that it's still better then using a gas engine.

It's also not easy to convince someone to change their preferred mode of transport and EV's provide an acceptable (and in many ways superior) alternative. Not to mention taking the bus or riding a bike just isn't feasible for some people, similarly some places (like Japan with three separate voltage standards) don't have the necessary infrastructure and capacity to support EV's.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 10 months ago (2 children)

There are studies after what kind of mileage an EV outperforms a regular car.

But the question is: Where do you get your electricity from? Is it regenerative energy?

[–] [email protected] 3 points 10 months ago (1 children)

A commercial scale coal power plant has a much cleaner output per kWh than your car running on gasoline (which requires excessive refining before it can be used). EVs are better but we should also look at modernizing grid plants.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

Ah, Thanks. I found an old Reuters article: https://www.reuters.com/business/cop/is-your-electric-car-eco-friendly-you-thought-2021-11-10/

It's for the EU. The USA is probably somewhere amongst the not so good countries. Wikipedia says 61% of natural gas and coal, 20% nuclear and just 18% renewable.

Seems complicated. But generally true if you have some clean energy in the mix. I think we should go competely for renewable, the sooner the better. I mean in the end neither coal nor gasoline is sustainable. We're going to run out of both eventually. And there is the CO2. I mean the prediction is that well known oil deposits will run out in 30 years. And coal lasts us for 150 years. So we have to dig and find some more oil, but EVs and renewables are the future.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 10 months ago (1 children)

the thing is that EVs are agnostic to their energy source. you could get 100% from your own home solar panel setup if you wanted to

[–] [email protected] 2 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

Sure. I meant you have to pay attention and do it right. In theory you can do all kinds of things. Drive super dirty vehicles to none at all and use your bicycle and the train. But the actual CO2 emissions depend on what we all actually decide to do. A solar panel would be a excellent. Especially if you live in the south where you get plenty of sun.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 10 months ago (3 children)

The #1 problem with EVs is not the energy and materials used to create the battery because that is eclipsed many times over by not using gas during the battery’s life- the biggest problem is that the entire car becomes e-waste as soon as the battery is damaged or degraded in any way.

https://www.autoevolution.com/news/yikes-the-60000-hyundai-ioniq-5-battery-replacement-saga-continues-226590.html

https://www.foxbusiness.com/technology/florida-family-electric-car-problem-replacement-battery-costs-more-vehicle

[–] [email protected] 3 points 10 months ago (1 children)

I hope moving forward, EVs will be regulated and have modular parts, and can still be user repairable, unlike (most) smartphones.

I don't want them to have that "vendor lock in" that Apple and Samsung are famous for, component wise.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 10 months ago

There's already a few videos of home mechanics replacing their own battery packs. Not a big thing yet, but as an engineer in related systems, it's great to see a first effort already happening.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 10 months ago (1 children)

The replacing the battery is simply a supply issue.

There is such a demand and so little supply, that if you want to buy just a battery (and not the entire car) you are out of luck. They'll put that battery in a new car and sell it before selling it to you as a replacement.

But that's short term. There are a huge number of battery plants already breaking ground and coming online.

In 2 years or so, the price to replace the battery will be a HELL of a lot lower, and the issue you linked above will be long gone.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 10 months ago (2 children)

I hope so but I doubt it. It’s not the price that’s so much of an issue but the fact that the packs are non-standard, non-serviceable, and the car is worthless without it. Manufacturers make money selling their own custom batteries at markup. It’ll take government regulation to force companies to begin using a modular system because there is literally negative incentive for manufactures to do it on their own.

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[–] [email protected] 2 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Not if there are going to be hundreds of millions of them, no.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 10 months ago

They're marginally better but we don't need marginally better, we need to get our shit together right now.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (1 children)

We rape Africa for those metals the in a similar way we've been raping the middle east for oil. I guarantee once the US starts mandating EVs and the majority start to transition over there will suddenly be some reason we need to have a vested military presence in Africa, with the possibility of wars centered around countries with these metals that we need.

It's better for air quality and would do a shitload towards giving us some spare time to process climate change, but they come with their own baggage of bullshit in terms of environmental damage.

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[–] [email protected] 2 points 10 months ago

Lithium mining is not good for the environment.

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