this post was submitted on 25 Jun 2023
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I really don't like this flood of "can we defed this instance because i don't like their ideology" posts.
Sure, you (and me) might find it offensive, but some others might not, and it shouldn't be us that get to decide what is right for them.
I agree that genuinely illegal/unethical instances like that anime cp one mentioned in another comment should be defederated, but I believe these political instances (exploding heads, lemmygrad, etc) should be federated with, and the user should be the one that blocks them.
Maybe this would be different if there were a lot of extremist instances that the user would have to block individually, but with the current low amount I think it's best to give the user the choice.
Allowing transphobic views to spread online makes people feel more comfortable harassing us in our dms, calling us slurs, and telling us to kill ourselves, or harassing us in public. Then they rally together pass laws to take our children away, throw us in jail, and ban us from recieving basic life-saving healthcare.
Edit: When it isn't banned, then we have to take the time to explain all this to the uninitiated and hope they won't ignore us or say we're being extremist too. It's exhausting. Banning it outright takes that weight off us. Case in point, the N word used to be a lot more common on the internet. Now far fewer people feel comfortable saying that shit casually, and we don't have to discuss why people shouldn't say it. The message is clear: act like this and you aren't welcome here.
I hear ya. Quick question, do you dislike Beehaw? I'm considering whether it's appropriate to promote for vulnerable people to join safe spaces like that, or lemmy.blahaj.zone. Those instances will defederate swiftly from instances with similar concerns for safety. There are many instances that are not pomoted as safe spaces, and there are some that are, and I'm wondering if the question of defederation could be transferred to a recommendation to join a safe space and not an open space where no such safeguards are set due to a higher preference for free access? Let me know what you think.
BeeHaw, I heard it was family friendly and defederating a lot so I didn’t want to get walled off from non-family friendly content right away. Maybe I was too quick to judge. Blahaj is pretty cool. Those seem like solid suggestions.
Ultimately, we haven’t settled down into our own echo chambers yet (which is pretty normal on the internet, keeping things tribal), so things are bound to be more stormy with this new surge of users as they find their homes. Ultimately, people will probably flock between instances based on admin rules and enforcement that most aligns with their own values. Until then I’ll keep recommending transphobes shove a pineapple up their ass sideways and centrists who want to let transphobes and racists advocate for our extermination to do the same.
Well, after thinking about it, I don’t want to put too much labor on admins. I think it’s wise to keep more power in the hands of the user, so I’d like users to be able to block instances instead of relying on defederation. They can defederate if they want to but mostly for issues that affect the health of their own instance. And mods can mod.
Does vlemmy defederate anything? The Instances list doesn't seem to show any blocked instance.
Ok, sorry, I’m a little buzzed and feisty currently. After thinking about this in context of the best options for users and the health of the community as a whole:
As a user, I’d like to be able to block instances if I see a need. I don’t think this is possibly yet, but I can block communities and individual users, which is useful.
At the admin/instance level, defederating would be a temp or permanant nuke, for defederating from instances that cause bigger issues like allowing bots to manipulate votes, spreading hate, or exposing their intended audience to content they don’t want to allow (child friendly instance such as BeeHaw blocks porn, fair play) per the admin’s discretion
Last but not least, Mods are only responsible for posts on their own communities and pruning comments or blocking users who violate their rules or the instances rules. (They should be able to report to admins/the instance when a user was blocked for violating instance rules so the admin can consider banning across the instance if necessary).
I have thought of developing an anti-instance block, but since I would definitely not use it I haven't gone forward with it. But it seems quite an easy task, to be honest. A script would just go over any post or comment, check the community's instance, check the poster/commenter's instance, and if any of the two match, it can simply do node.deleteNode() and that's it, ez pz. It'd probably take me less than an hour to do this.
I haven’t heard of vlemmy defederating. My main reason for joining this instance was so I didn’t have to provide an email address, which was the first priority for me due to added privacy. Long ago, reddit never required email addresses, so I think that’s a good feature for now (protecting against bots is another can of worms altogether). I may shift to another instance soon, we’ll see.
But free speech, I don’t think people started advocating for free speech so they could coexist with nazis and bigots. I imagine it was more for allowing criticism of people in positions of power, like government figures, admins, and mods without repercussions (executing people, throwing them in jail, banning, etc). If you’re merely advocating for transphobia and racial slurs, what the fuck is the point of protecting “free speech”? Why would someone even value that?
Edit: To put it another way, I won’t choose to be part of an instance whose admin allows open bigotry in their own content or stays federated with other instances that allow bigotry, cp, neo-nazis, or alt-right communities to thrive. I realize that at a more granular level, I will have to use my own discretion and power to block whoever I see fit or switch instances, but I can also use my voice to advocate that admins not allow that shit either.
This is all easy to say for non-trans folk who aren't being targeted for the next genocide. If we allow users like this to hide behind crypto-fascist rhetoric, vulnerable minority communities will be overwhelmed and pushed out by the sheer volume of hatred.
I am completely unfamiliar with federation as a concept so there may not be a way to effectively moderate an entire instance consisting of several communities, but if there is a way to protect vulnerable communities without de-federaring, it needs to be done.
This is a tough call. I see where you're coming from, I really do, but saying things like "target for the next genocide" really isnt going to win over anyone on the fence.
Edit: I do live in one of the most trans friendly places in Canada though. If you're from the southern states (or worse) I can see why it'd feel that way.
I have a non-binary kid. It's not an exaggeration or imagination. People have made death threats against them. They're under twelve years old.
You only think it's exaggerated because you're sheltered from it.
I'm not saying anyone is imagining things. I'm very sorry to hear your child has gone through that but it's good you are supportive of them.
I'm not sheltered from it. Believe it or not I have enby and trans friends. I have heard stories, I know there are awful people out there, that's not what I'm saying.
My point is, as an alley, if I pause when I read it phrased that way, just imagine how the people who are already struggling to understand will read it.
You know what I mean?
You having those friends doesn't mean you're not sheltered if you live in a place where it's not happening as much.
You mentioned the southern states so you know what's going on it just isn't in your face or affecting you, hence "sheltered".
Well I've heard a lot worse from other continents, but call me sheltered if you want, miss my pont, that's fine. No I don't have a non-binary kid in the states, that sounds rough, I'm sorry.
All I'm saying is maybe on place like this with clearly more diverse viewpoints (a good thing) I'm mindful on how the "other side" might read those words and take the problem less seriously as a result.
I hope your kid is doing well and that you both stay safe.
WHY are vulnerable people joining a decentralized system? Isnt this why you want a closed, not for public eyes community?
Also genocide? What? Acceptance is extremely high and on the up thanks to a plethora of institutions working HARD to improve the image of trans people. You dismiss all their hard work by calling trans people ripe for genocide.
You have some extreme views and I recommend you touch some grass, not even ironically. Nobody is planning a genocide on trans people.
For the same reason wheelchair users leave the house after dark
Anyway, "public" doesn't mean "hate speech friendly."
Transgender people are not disabled. They know exactly what their personal shortcomings are.
There are a plethora of fediverses that are locked down tight and remove everything that would even mildly trigger people.
Im all for banning nazis and trolls but I think its healthy to keep discussions.
I know this fediverse will defederate and I explained in another comment that im completely fine with it. If people dont want to hear centrist opinions thats up to them. Not me.
I personally use the block button if I feel I dont want to see someones opinion and I encourage everyone to do the same with me they dont want to see my comments.
Everyone always thinks allowing a bunch of opinions will make everything dissolve in a right wing nightmarish shithole. You can still set boundaries which the EH admins did.
And lets not forget that the admins of EH always were upfront and honest they would ban nazis or extreme views. This has been confirmed multiple times. Point it out to them and they will ban them.
Care to elaborate on that point?
No person is perfect, its important to know what triggers you. They can manage fine deciding what content they dont want to see.
If they cant they should find a closed server run by admins that protect them from literally everything. Reddit for example.
If you think Reddit protects trans people... you really have no idea.
It's sounded like you were implying something a lot worse.
If I wasnt clear I have nothing against the trans community.
Only dislike I have is the memes because I cant relate to them. 😝
But you wont find me entering their safe spaces to start arguing on what is or isnt genocide, im only doing that here because its a public space and I didnt find it reasonable to be set apart as "neonazi" or genocide instigator for joining a centrist community with a bunch of weirdos.
I just think edgy memes can be funny
https://www.erininthemorning.com/p/june-anti-trans-legislative-risk
Transphobes want us dead, call it whatever you like. Whether or not acceptance is high in general, the extremists are still fighting hard at the state level in the US, which usually spreads ideologically to other countries.
Easy, we defederate all Americans.
Moving the goalposts. You call this a genocide, its a far cry from it. About half the states respect, and provide support.
Whatever they do in red states isnt nice, but you arent being genocided by a bunch of boomers.
In fact, I think you are vulgar for comparing your strugglings with people like the jewish, ughurs, black africans who got and get genocided on a daily basis.
You dont know what struggle is and this makes your comment very tasteless.
I also notice a weird concidence where most transgender people I meet in real life have zero of the struggles outlined by people online. They a job, partner and get sufficient healthcare. They are respected, except by people of certain religions.
Again, I will respectfully ask you to stop comparing your struggle to a genocide, as it is not.
You are a marginalized group that is bullied and pushed around by boomers in suits.
Sounds like a struggle to me?
Well, let us assume that there is an instance X that specifically ban any instance that contains historical stuff about Holocaust and how bad it was. The instance X may not contain any Nazi propaganda, but you know that they are Nazi. Would you ban them or not?