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Why do people hate Manjaro and how to replicate Manjaro sway in arch or arco? (lemmy.ml)

submitted 1 year ago by [email protected] to c/[email protected]

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Pretty much the title. Where's the hate towards Manjaro coming from? I was pretty much a Ubuntu/Fedora user for years but never got too technical. Used almost always gnome, but recently got interested in tiling wm and have done some searches and stumbled upon the Manjaro Sway edition and everything works quite well, but I keep seeing people bashing on Manjaro and I don't know exactly why. So if I were to use sway in Arch or Arco (way friendlier to install) if there any simple way to replicate the makeup sway default configuration?

Thank you all for your time.

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[–] [email protected] 34 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (3 children)

There's a lot of reasons people hate on Manjaro, though generally they boil down to instability - despite being on a slower schedule than Arch, a lot of people report worse breakage; their main "testing" is just being a week behind Arch without actually testing much.

Crucially, this can break things when mixing in AUR packages since those are shared w/ Arch and so anything in there that's precompiled against the Arch version of relevant libraries might just break.

It also has considerably deficient security policies, such as the GUI installer pamac allowing unsuspecting users to trivially install unvetted packages from the AUR without even a clear indication they may be dangerous, and they forgot to update their SSL certificates ~~twice~~ edit: five times (see https://lemmy.ml/comment/1343440), asking users to manually overwrite them as a "fix".

Unrelated to desktop, I've also noticed Manjaro staff are quite hostile and unpleasant to work with; I'm involved in a project that works on Linux on mobile devices, and Manjaro's mobile team has been less than the most pleasant. This is a personal gripe for sure and unrelated to the distro itself, but if I'm going to take a dump on Manjaro I'll do it all the way.

As for your other question; you can simply copy the sway config file from the Manjaro install. Either mount the ISO and search there, or if it needs to be installed to populate the sway config, just install in a VM and copy it from there. Necessary packages should be relatively easy to find by just reading the errors sway spits out and googling them.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 1 year ago (1 children)

such as the GUI installer pamac allowing unsuspecting users to trivially install unvetted packages from the AUR without even a clear indication they may be dangerous

Unless something has changed since the last time I used Manjaro, this isn't actually true. You have to go relatively deep into Pamac's settings menu to enable AUR packages, and when you do, a popup comes up telling you what the AUR is and why it might be dangerous (although iirc, it neglects to tell you that an extra reason is Manjaro packages being out of date).

Not that I'm pro-Manjaro, for all the other reasons you've given.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Good point and I absolutely should have mentioned this in my original comment, but I do think there is a risk here worth mentioning. A lot of guides for installing some arbitrary piece of software on Manjaro (or, to be fair, any Arch-based distro) will boil down to installing some package from the AUR, and the average Manjaro user is probably less tech-savvy than the average Arch user. Also, the pamac warning dialog only warns against packages not compiling or being buggy, not against malicious ones, and as far as I know - though it's been a while since I used pamac - it doesn't allow you to inspect the PKGBUILD at install-time, whereas most CLI AUR helpers e.g. paru which I use require it and require manual signoff every time said build script changes.

As an entirely unscientific test, I googled "manjaro enable aur" and checked the first 5 results to see if there's any warnings (I figured this is a relatively common query from Manjaro users?) and only 2 even mentioned the risk of malicious packages, with the top result not mentioning any risks whatsoever, not even breakage or bugginess. I'm sure there are many resources that do make this clear, but I doubt the average Manjaro user will see them.

This is arguably an issue on most Arch-based distros with a pretty installer, though it seems Manjaro is particularly vulnerable since it's marketed as a beginner-friendly distro despite all of these footguns.

Edit: at the risk of crucifixion, this is also why I usually direct newcomers towards using flatpaks wherever possible instead of using 3rd party repositories unless said repositories come directly from the developers of said (trusted) package. Briefly looking over the Manjaro docs, it seems like enabling flatpaks is actually harder than enabling AUR packages as it requires installing a compat plugin (whereas AUR support appears to just be a settings change). Maybe there's an option during the installer to enable it, but I couldn't find a mention, and this might also push users towards the less-secure and unsandboxed AUR.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

This....all of it. I started with Arch using Manjaro, like so many do. There was a mass exodus that exploded, and the worst lot remained on the dev team. Beyond that, as you stated, they convice their users that holding back packages is for their benefit, when in reality, your system becomes unstable at times as a result, especially becoming out of sync with AUR. It is still one of the most popular Arch distros, and ...well..I feel sorry for their uninformed users who believe it is a stable choice.

For information sake; Reasons Against Using Manjaro

[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I used Arch in the past but don't have much time to tinker with my Linux installs anymore, so I switched to Manjaro on most of my devices, hoping to get a balance between low maintenance and access to bleeding edge and AUR ecosystem. I do notice the issues with updates getting delayed more and more in the past few months, and issues with AUR packages getting out of sync like you mentioned.

I wonder if I should start looking into something else. Any recommendation?

[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 year ago

Yes, stick with Arch. Arch is not the issue if installed without the holding chambers Manjaro puts in place. Arch has a good installer on its own, but if you need a bit more, distros like EndeavourOS, Calam-Arch-Installer, ALCI (Arch Linux Calamares Installer,) and even Garuda are all fine options.

[–] [email protected] -1 points 1 year ago

Go to each distros respective subreddits and you'll find way more tech support questions for arch linux.

That entire distro is pretty much nothing but googling.