this post was submitted on 03 Apr 2024
45 points (100.0% liked)
LGBTQ+
6191 readers
3 users here now
All forms of queer news and culture. Nonsectarian and non-exclusionary.
See also this community's sister subs Feminism, Neurodivergence, Disability, and POC
Beehaw currently maintains an LGBTQ+ resource wiki, which is up to date as of July 10, 2023.
This community's icon was made by Aaron Schneider, under the CC-BY-NC-SA 4.0 license.
founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
The only flag is the regular rainbow flag because its already all inclusive. All other flags are anti LGBT.
Idk, I appreciate the progress pride flag because it explicitly includes trans, intersex and poc. There's a decent number of people who would consider themselves part of "the community" and use the standard rainbow flag, who don't consider any identities past LGB. Its nice to be able to signal to people that you are genuinely a safe person/group/whatever who cares about the whole community and their struggles.
No. POC? Do you know how gay Asians are treated? Or eastern Europeans?
One flag for all and thats the normal rainbow. Singling out specific groups is racist.
Im ok with a black stripe, as a remembrance to the Aids crisis. But the other stuff is already included and does not need more than the normal rainbow.
The rainbow stands for anyone, its not exclusive to sexuality or gender, it stands for both.
I'm leaving this comment up because I think it's fine to point out that the rainbow stands for anyone. But I'm also leaving this reply here to let you know that you need to disengage with this thread. Insisting that a pride flag is racist is not exactly creating a welcoming environment here or being nice to people who feel included with specific flags which highlight their identity.
Thanks for keeping beehaw a safe and friendly place <3
So a pride flag that is clearly textbook racist is good and arguing against it and the people that say its better because of the racism is not allowed here? Ok.
when you call them racist and imply they're segregationist for having their preference, yes, that is not allowed. that's needlessly aggressive and needlessly sectarian—and speaking personally, "having a preference for more stripes on a flag that represent marginalized communities is racist and like segregation" is just such an overstatement of the point (that i otherwise agree with, for the record—i am not a fan of the progress flag) being made that it verges into being unserious.
Im not implying that, its just a fact that treating people differently based on skin colores is racist. If thats in a positive way or a negative one, is completely irrelevant. Its racist.
i don't think "adding race-specific stripes to a pride flag" is a bad thing, is "treating people differently based on skin tone" except in the most cringeworthy, pedantic, I See No Color way possible, or is "racist"—and i think that if you believe these things you probably will not be allowed to partake in discussions like this on our instance after today
If you say so. I don't think its ok to be racist, but if you think differently ban me for being against racism and saying a all inclusive rainbow is all inclusive.
That's such a strawman reply. Nobody in this conversation thinks it is okay to be racist. You would not be banned for being anti racist, and implying that you would be is part of what you're doing wrong here.
I feel more includet in the Progress Flag than the standard Rainbow. That's just me, but why should that be less valid?
That's just wrong. The Rainbow Flag represents LGBT Pride and does not include BIPOC.
I don't know why you don't like the progress flag, but it's not racist and it's not transphobic and it's not segregating. It highlights the diversity of human rights movements and points out that all human rights movements have the same goal and should work together.
There is no racism against whites, idiot. You aren't being denied jobs, getting houses, being shot by the police for no reason, or being harassed on the streets openly because you're white.
Stop bitching around and deal with the fact that you're not a king/queen/monarch anymore you absolute moron.
Sorry for the tone, but this shit pisses me off.
Lmao, tell that to Romanians or Polish or Russians/Ukrainians or Jews or Hungarian.
There is 100% racism against so called white people. But this isn't about white being not included, this is about treating people differently based on skin colores, wich is already given by putting brown on the flag because its singling them out, even the goal of highlighting the most oppressed part of LGBT is absolutely dogshit as, for example many Asians are treated way worse when they come out as gay.
Im very against the whole "white people" thing as most northern Eurasien humans are kinda white and discriminate against each other very very much.
Discrimination isn't just about your slavery problem you have in USA its just all treating people differently because they look a little different.
So this whole discourse is why I don't like adding to the rainbow flag for specific groups. Once you add a distinction to represent a specific group, every group then wants to be included, creating a giant mess. It's the classic "a camel is a horse designed by a committee" problem.
over 
I understand that every non-cishet group faces their own unique challenges, discrimination, abuse, and hatred, but the whole point of the rainbow flag is to show that we are all united together.
As a trans person who's been harassed and excluded at an LGBT event, I don't feel represented by a rainbow at all anymore. Go do your thing LGB, since I'm not welcome I'm doing mine. If you show me that I'm allowed to be part of you (by putting my thing back into yours) I'm coming back.
Yeah, terfs suck, but that's not the fault of the flag. The rainbow is supposed to be the unifying symbol to unite the various other symbols. The entire purpose is that it doesn't represent ~~an entire~~ any specific group, but the unity of the spectrum of human sexuality. I'm not arguing against the idea of the progress pride flag, I'm simply saying that trying to be inclusive by adding group specific symbols to what is supposed to be a unifying flag is inherently exclusionary, since groups that don't get inclusive symbols included now feel excluded. In fact, i like the idea of adding a pile onto the standard Rainbow flag for people to express their personal identity.
For another example of this dilemma, look at the Union Jack for Terf Island/ The UK. It's supposed to represent the unity of the Kingdoms of England, Scotland, and Ireland, yet there are actually 4 countries that make up the UK, with Wales being excluded entirely from the flag. Ensuring every group feels included on an overarching symbol is a never ending battle that will never be enough.
Humans (individually and otherwise) and humanity are constantly growing and developing and changing. There's never going to be an end to where we can go and what we can be, so why would there be an end to our attempts to include and support everyone?
Reminds me that lots of people act like there's some point at which they're done, like they've reached good and can just sit there without any further effort. This is wrong. There is no end. Good is a way of life, not a mark on some paper. We must carry on our efforts, always, never imagining we'll complete the task of "good."
My point being, why not try to evolve a flag? We evolve, the flag evolves. Maybe some time we need a new new one that includes everycritter. We'll always be changing so our expressions of ourselves and our communities will also necessarily change. This isn't a matter of solving an engineering problem once; it's a matter of endlessly varying human nature and expression.
Really hoping I managed to express some of that well 😅 Bit repetitive I guess but I struggle with concision 🤷
A minor point to bring up here, but being transgender is about gender, not sexuality, and I think you unintentionally just highlighted a very good reason why including the trans flag can help make that statement of inclusion and unity.
I... What?
State flags are anti-US because the American flag is already all inclusive.
I think a more direct comparison would be flying the US flag with a state flag covering half of it.
Personal identity flags are perfectly fine, alongside the rainbow pride flag or just on their own. Just don't cover over the "everyone" flag with specific identities. That's like the opposite of the flag's meaning.
The union jack shows a prime example of the opposite
You mean the flag that excludes 1/4 of the membership of the union? Combining specific symbols to try and make groups feel included only ever ends up making another group feel excluded. No one is arguing against symbols for trans people, or intersex, or POC people, just that the standard Rainbow flag was intended to represent them all.
Technically yes but they are the other way around.
They represent a part of the USA, not try to expand the country's flag by adding more stuff.
They are like the trans flag or the other specific ones.
Remember when they kept adding stars to the USA's national flag every time a new state joined the union?
I don't care, im German. However, since the stars explicitly represent one state each, it makes a lot more sense than to add things to something that already means everyone.
Its a big difference.
The original 13-star flag supposedly represented everyone too. It seems pretty hypocritical to say that government flags can be modified to add representation but queer flags shouldn't.
And no star represents any specific state either. All are uniform and identical to ensure that none carry anymore weight than the others, and the layout of the stars completely changes everytime new ones get added.
Country flags are anti-humanity because the UN flag is already all inclusive...
(actually, that one might be true, with all the warmongering populist nationalisms and whatnot)
this is "all lives matter" all over again. I don't mind a flag that recognizes trans and POC folks, who out of the LGBTQ community are discriminated against the most.
You're the reason we need this flag.
If you think that, buy as many as you want.
A new one I've seen (not the one in the article) was basically just every pride flag stitched together. I thought it looked ugly as hell and that the regular rainbow one already includes everyone; that's why it's a rainbow.
Yes, someone nade the comparison to the EU flags (also the infamous rejected one that looks like a fucking broken monitor)