Collapse of Civilization

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Discussion regarding the potential collapse of global civilization, defined as a significant decrease in human population and/or...

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The original was posted on /r/collapse by /u/jtnostradamus on 2024-08-22 22:06:42+00:00.


Serious question:

If the world is really ending because of climate change, why the richest men on the planet didnt group up and says in a worldwide "news" that they will use 99% of ALL of their money to try EVERYTHING, even "creazy" project, just to try everything is possible, i repeat: using ALL of their money to try to save the planet.

Not just for themself, but mostly for their OWN childrens.

If the world is gonna end in very few years thir childrens are condamned so why saving money?

thanks

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The original was posted on /r/collapse by /u/Morgedoo on 2024-08-22 19:59:32+00:00.

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The original was posted on /r/collapse by /u/TuneGlum7903 on 2024-08-22 19:07:16+00:00.


"In science and philosophy, a paradigm (/ˈpærədaɪm/ PARR-ə-dyme) is a distinct set of concepts or thought patterns, including theories, research methods, postulates, and standards for what constitute legitimate contributions to a field." - Wikipedia

How we SEE the Climate System and think about it is a paradigm. That paradigm is "mainstream climate science".

This paradigm didn't come "from nowhere". It has a history.

IT is NOT the ONLY way to look at the Climate System.

But, "right now" it is the dominant paradigm in the field of Climate Science. People like Zeke Hausfather, Michael Mann, and Gavin Schmidt at GISS proselytize and vigorously "defend the paradigm".

Not agreeing with the mainstream paradigm makes you a "Denier", an "Alarmist", or just plain "crazy".

Do you have ANY idea what the main points of the "mainstream" or "Moderate" (because it's between the Deniers and Alarmists) Climate Paradigm are?

Do you have ANY idea why this paradigm became the dominant viewpoint in Climate Science and what evidence supports it?

The Climate Paradigm of the Moderates is built on VERY weak foundations.

051 - Unclothing the Emperor : Understanding “What’s Wrong” with our Climate Paradigm. In order to understand “Why” things are happening “FASTER than Expected”. (11/05/23)

Zeke Hausfather wrote this on October 13th 2023 for the NYT.

I Study Climate Change. The Data Is Telling Us Something New.

“While many experts have been cautious about acknowledging it, there is increasing evidence that global warming has accelerated over the past 15 years rather than continued at a gradual, steady pace. That acceleration means that the effects of climate change we are already seeing — extreme heat waves, wildfires, rainfall and sea level rise — will only grow more severe in the coming years.”

“I don’t make this claim lightly. Among my colleagues in climate science, there are sharp divisions on this question, and some aren’t convinced it’s happening.”

“Climate scientists generally focus on longer-term changes over decades rather than year-to-year variability, and some of my peers in the field have expressed concerns about over interpreting short-term events like the extremes we’ve seen this year.”

“In the past I doubted acceleration was happening, in part because of a long debate about whether global warming had paused from 1998 to 2012. In hindsight, that was clearly not the case.”

THE “DEBATE” IS OVER.

It’s a signal that the “Climate Paradigm” of the Moderates is “broken”.

It’s a signal that “The Alarmists”, are right.

Global Warming is Accelerating. Why? Will We Fly Blind?”

The world is getting hotter faster, say Dr. James Hansen and his team. Sept 2023

ALLIGATORS IN THE ARCTIC

The narrative explaining the “hole in the heart” of our current Climate Paradigm starts with paleontology.

During the 90’s, paleontologists exploring the High Arctic (above 60N) found fossils of alligators and palm trees in Alaska. These fossils are clustered between 55–53mya in a period known as the PETM or “Paleocene-Eocene Thermal Maximum”.

55 million years ago, during the PETM, the High Arctic was a lot like Miami, with an average temperature of 74F degrees. Alligator ancestors and palm trees lived in Alaska on the shores of an Arctic Ocean, that NEVER froze. Even in Winter.

How giant tortoises, alligators thrived in High Arctic 50 million years ago.

— Science News Aug, 2010

During the Early Eocene, Ellesmere Island, which is adjacent to Northern Greenland, probably was similar to swampy cypress forests in the southeastern United States today. Eocene fossil evidence collected there in recent decades by various teams indicate the lush landscape hosted giant tortoises, aquatic turtles, large snakes, alligators, flying lemurs, tapirs, and hippo-like and rhino-like mammals.

These are “indisputable” FACTS.

This is a HUGE problem for the current Climate Paradigm. Because there is NO WAY to explain it using the current Climate Models.

“Climate Science” has known about this “problem” since 1998.

Latitudinal temperature gradients and climate change

JOURNAL OF GEOPHYSICAL RESEARCH, VOL. 103, NO. D6, PAGES 5943–5971, MARCH 27, 1998 by David Rind NASA\GISS

Here’s WHY this is a problem for the current Climate Science “orthodoxy”.

In order for these fossils to exist, the High Arctic would have to have been about +35C warmer than our 1850 baseline.

How HOT does the Earth have to get, in order to warm up the Arctic by +35C?

How is that even possible?

In 1998, this was regarded as a “life or death” question. The VERY first sentence of this paper asks.

“How variable is the latitudinal temperature gradient with climate change?”

Then goes on to tell us that;

“This question is second in importance only to the question of overall climate sensitivity”

“Our current inability to answer it affects everything from understanding past climate variations, and paleoclimate proxies, to projections of regional effects of future greenhouse warming [Rind, 1995].”

WE ALL NEED TO BE REALLY CLEAR ABOUT THIS.

This paper is the “smoking gun” evidence that our current understanding of the Climate System is “deeply flawed” and “morally corrupt”. This paper is at the heart of “the lie” in our current Climate Paradigm.

Because, it’s REALLY about “Climate Sensitivity”.

It’s really, about how much we think the Earth will warm up if we DOUBLE the amount of CO2 in the atmosphere.

The “science” of CLIMATE SENSITIVITY is a LOT less certain than most people understand.

Here’s what our best models indicated as of September 2020.

+2.3–+4.5C — 95%

+2.6–+3.9C — 66%

+2.0–+5.7C — 05%

An Assessment of Earth’s Climate Sensitivity Using Multiple Lines of Evidence

Which states: that at atmospheric CO2 levels of 560ppm, there is a;

  • 95% chance that the GMT will increase at least +2.3C and possibly as much as +4.5C (Split the difference)
  • 66% chance that the GMT increase will be between +2.6C and +3.9C (Moderates)
  • 05% chance that the GMT could increase as much as +5.7C. (Alarmists)

This is the range of answers after 60 YEARS of effort at modeling the future “near term” climate.

Narrowing the “most likely” response down to a 66% chance that it will be between +2.6C and +3.9C JUST happened in 2020. It was hailed as a HUGE advance.

“Constraining Earth’s Climate Sensitivity (ECS) has remained a holy grail in climate science ever since U.S. meteorologist Jules Charney suggested a possible range of 1.5C to 4.5C in his 1979 report.”

“His estimate was largely based on the world’s first two global climate models, which gave different estimates of +1.8°C to +3°C (Moderate) and +4°C to +6°C (Alarmist) when they performed a simple experiment where atmospheric CO2 levels were doubled”.

“Since then, despite more than 40 years of research, much improved understanding of atmospheric processes, as well as many more detailed observations, this range has stubbornly persisted”.

‘Now, bringing together evidence from observed warming, Earth’s distant past and climate models, as well as advances in our scientific understanding of the climate. After four years of labor and detailed discussions by an international team of scientists, we are able to quantify better than ever before how the world’s surface temperature responds to increasing CO2 levels”.

“Our findings suggest that the range of ECS is “likely” (66%) to be between +2.6C and +4.1C.”

Why low-end ‘climate sensitivity’ can now be ruled out.

FYI- They mean we can FINALLY toss out the +1.8°C to +2.2°C "lowball" guesses.

Only ONE of these answers implies a “Climate Sensitivity” to CO2 that’s HIGH enough to account for the PETM fossils.

It’s not in the “likely” range.

The Moderates got Climate Sensitivity WRONG in 1979.

When they couldn't account for the PETM fossils they "doubled down" in 1998 and chose a value of "less than double" for Arctic Amplification.

The two MOST IMPORTANT values in the Climate System are "off" in our models.

THERE IS ABOUT TO BE A PARADIGM SHIFT IN CLIMATE SCIENCE.

It's not going to be "good news".

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The original was posted on /r/collapse by /u/conscsness on 2024-08-22 16:33:28+00:00.

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The original was posted on /r/collapse by /u/Toni253 on 2024-08-22 09:30:40+00:00.

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The original was posted on /r/collapse by /u/Curious_Ordinary_980 on 2024-08-21 02:40:13+00:00.


Something I just started wondering about: in climate models, they often give a range of predictions. How does today, 2024, compare to what models have predicted today would be like? I know I hear a lot of, “heating is happening faster than expected” - is that phrase based on this type of analysis, and if so, what’s the best summary or source for that kind of analysis?

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The original was posted on /r/collapse by /u/Nastyfaction on 2024-08-22 06:17:37+00:00.

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The original was posted on /r/collapse by /u/Nastyfaction on 2024-08-22 03:30:12+00:00.

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The original was posted on /r/collapse by /u/Expensive_Cat_9387 on 2024-08-21 19:36:19+00:00.

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The original was posted on /r/collapse by /u/Portalrules123 on 2024-08-21 18:18:59+00:00.

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The original was posted on /r/collapse by /u/Portalrules123 on 2024-08-21 18:16:15+00:00.

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The original was posted on /r/collapse by /u/Ok_Mechanic_6561 on 2024-08-21 17:02:19+00:00.


This article came out I bit earlier in the year but it’s an interesting read to say the least. “New research indicates that the decline in smog particles from China’s air cleanups caused the recent extreme heat waves in the Pacific. Scientists are grappling with the fact that reducing such pollution, while essential for public health, is also heating the atmosphere. They call it “The Blob.” A vast expanse of ocean stretching from Alaska to California periodically warms by up to 4 degrees Celsius (7 degrees F), decimating fish stocks, starving seabirds, creating blooms of toxic algae, preventing salmon returns to rivers, displacing sea lions, and forcing whales into shipping lanes to find food. The Blob first formed in 2013 and spread across an area of the northeast Pacific the size of Canada. It lasted for three years and keeps coming back — most recently last summer. Until now, scientists have been unable to explain this abrupt ocean heating. Climate change, even combined with natural cycles such as El Niño, is not enough.”

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The original was posted on /r/collapse by /u/Portalrules123 on 2024-08-21 16:11:48+00:00.

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The original was posted on /r/collapse by /u/DairyFarmerOnCrack on 2024-08-21 13:22:57+00:00.

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The original was posted on /r/collapse by /u/DestroyTheMatrix_3 on 2024-08-21 02:56:23+00:00.

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The original was posted on /r/collapse by /u/PuIchritudinous on 2024-08-21 02:40:35+00:00.


The city of Clyde, Texas, defaulted on its water system debt due to financial strain caused by a severe drought. The drought reduced water sales, leading to a significant drop in revenue and the city's inability to make a bond payment. As a result, Clyde's credit rating was downgraded, and bond insurers had to step in.

This situation illustrates how climate-related events like drought can destabilize local economies, contributing to broader concerns about societal and economic collapse in the face of environmental stressors

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The original was posted on /r/collapse by /u/BaronNahNah on 2024-08-21 02:40:20+00:00.

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The original was posted on /r/collapse by /u/nommabelle on 2024-08-20 23:00:34+00:00.


We'll be having a debate between r/OptimistsUnite and r/Collapse in 1-2 months. We think it'd be insightful and interesting to visit each other's perspectives and engage in some good-spirited dialogue. We'll be shaping the debate around "What is human civilization trending towards?" You can find our prior debates with r/Futurology here.

Each subreddit will select three debaters and three alternates (in the event some cannot make it). Anyone may nominate themselves to represent r/collapse by posting in this thread explaining why they think they would be a good choice.

You may also nominate others, but they must post in this thread to be considered. You may vote for others who have already posted by commenting on their post and reasoning. The moderators will then select the participants and reach out to them directly.

The debate itself will be a sticky post in one sub and linked to via another sticky to the other sub. The debate date and time is TBD, participants will be polled after being selected to determine what works best for everyone. We'd ask participants be present in the thread for at least 1-2 hours from the start of the debate, but may revisit it for as long as they wish afterwards. Each participant will be asked to write an opening statement for their subreddit.

Both sides' debaters will put forward their initial opening statements and then all participants may reply with counter arguments within the post to each other's statements. General members from each community will be invited to observe, but allowed to post in the thread as well. The representatives for each subreddit will be flaired so they are easily visible throughout the thread. We'll create a post-discussion thread in r/collapse to discuss the results of the debate after it is finished.

Let us know if you would like to participate! You can help us decide who should represent r/collapse by nominating others here and voting on those who respond in the comments below.


We are also compiling a short (~1hr total) introduction to collapse for debaters to review before engaging. The same will be provided by r/OptimistsUnite, with the expectations any collapseniks engaging has reviewed their material. If you have any suggestions, please include them below as well (perhaps in separate comments from debater suggestions). If it's a subsection of content (such as timestamp 1:05-10:32 of a video), please indicate that. Such as:


And lastly, please be mindful of reddit rules, particularly around brigading: don't engage in their sub with malicious intent. We will expect everyone during the debate to remain good faithed and respectful to keep it friendly and informal.

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The original was posted on /r/collapse by /u/Ok_Mechanic_6561 on 2024-08-20 21:40:57+00:00.


“Intensifying extreme weather events and an insurance crisis are likely to cause significant economic and political disruption in the U.S. sometime in the next 15 years.” In reality though, using these carbon capture techniques aren’t even a wide scale thing yet and is just another ploy but the fossil fuel industry. Additionally, society in the United States and the world is destined to change, but not for the better, and our greedy consumer behavior will lead to our end. However, if there’s one thing that will truly make me somewhat filled with rage about humanity until the very end is that they’ll keep plugging their ears about climate change until it’s too late, then have the audacity to cry out “why didn’t anyone tell us this was happening?!” I honestly don’t know how much time we have left in terms of when things will quickly shift upside down, but the ones that deny climate change and those that pump fossil fuels into the atmosphere for profit are the true villains of this story. If only there could be a heroic ending to it all, one can only hope….

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The original was posted on /r/collapse by /u/NinesInSpace on 2024-08-20 20:44:07+00:00.

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The original was posted on /r/collapse by /u/DreamHollow4219 on 2024-08-20 20:22:13+00:00.

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The original was posted on /r/collapse by /u/apollo20171 on 2024-08-20 19:08:46+00:00.

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The original was posted on /r/collapse by /u/Emplasmic on 2024-08-20 18:43:24+00:00.

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The original was posted on /r/collapse by /u/mlon_eusk12 on 2024-08-20 16:58:20+00:00.

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The original was posted on /r/collapse by /u/Vegetaman916 on 2024-08-20 14:35:52+00:00.

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