this post was submitted on 10 Jul 2023

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The left. Deep thinkers they are not. (cdn.imgchest.com)

submitted 1 year ago by [email protected] to c/[email protected]

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[–] [email protected] 8 points 1 year ago (3 children)

Lol, no. This is what happens when you don't talk to real leftists and spend all your time circlejerking each other.

Calling someone privileged because they are white is because whiteness bestows privileges. You're like, "No, it doesn't!"

White people own 86% of wealth and make up 60% of the population

...the homeownership rate for white households was 75 percent compared to 45 percent for Black households, 48 percent for Hispanic households, and 57 percent for non-Hispanic households of any other race.

White High School Drop-Outs Are As Likely To Land Jobs As Black College Students

And there's plenty more. There is a very strong correlation between a white skin color and being anywhere other than the bottom of the social strata in the United States. Whiteness as privilege is just a shortened quip that captures that idea. You're essentially attacking a strawman.

Now, I will admit that #NotAllWhitePeople are as privileged as the white label might suggest. I've lived in Dayton, OH, hollowed out by automakers outsourcing their operations to Mexico, and they are clearly very poor. That East Palestine train débâcle is a case in point. And it flies in the face of the fact that middle-aged white men, generally considered to be the wealthiest, kill themselves at a higher rate that any other demographic.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Critical race theory is a grift. It's not real. What's real is class warfare. Rich people are happy for us to fight each other over the scraps from their table. But feel free to keep carrying that water.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I'm willing to have this conversation, but can you give me a fair definition of what CRT is?

Because simply asserting stuff without evidence is not worth my time.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

By CRT I mean Critical Race Theory as presented by the hack Richard Delgado in his book.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I haven't read the book. What did he say it was?

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

... it's a book. You want me to duplicate it in comments here? Any place selling the book will have a favourable summary. Any place critiquing it will have a negative one. If any actual philosopher bothers to discuss it, they won't be favourable to it at all.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Can you be more specific on who you are talking about. The world is more complex than black yellow and white.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

Uhh be more specific how?

I'm quite evidently not talking about the whole world, only a small portion of it.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago

I looked it up btw, did you?

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago

Well we are investigating white people with money so lets narrow it down. I'll look up who the richest white americans are and their demographics and see just who these wealth hoarders are.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago

Lulz

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Saying "white people are privileged" isn't a judgement though, it is a perceived description of reality. And because of "racism" (the idea that humanity can be separated into different "races" based on characteristics such as skin color), if society places you in the "white people" category, you will be treated differently than if you are placed into the "non-white category".

To name a specific and concrete example, if you happen to get classified as "white", you will not be racially profiled and searched by police simply because of your racial classification. In this specific case, white people have the privilege of not having to deal with that issue.

Where the idea of white privilege falls short is that it implies that "white people" are always more privileged and/or better off than "black people" in every way, which is obviously not true. In reality, your perceived class identity is much more important when it comes to how you are probably going to be treated by society.

The issue is that oftentimes, race is used to judge someone's class status. A black person is more likely to be classified as "poor". However, when you are "white", but you look like a homeless person, you will probably be treated in a similar way.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

What you're describing is specific to just a few places, mostly the USA. If you go to the middle east and start dancing around in speedos as a white male you're not going to feel very privileged.

Agree with a lot of what you said at the end. For me, the issue is that talking about race is useless. There's nothing CRT can predict that "financial class theory" won't predict better. And, unlike CRT, it works everywhere on earth.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

If you go to the middle east and start dancing around in speedos as a white male you’re not going to feel very privileged.

So if you go to the middle east as a white person, especially a white man, you will feel incredibly privileged.. Maybe more so than in the west.. Of course there are significant differences depending on where exactly you go, but in a lot of places, there are significant differences of standards that apply to tourists compared to locals. And as a white person, people of course automatically assume that you are a tourist and they will be much much more tolerant towards behaviour that is normally not tolerated.

For example, there are many places where alcohol is completely illegal for locals, but it is completely legal for tourists. And if you wear a speedo, you might get some looks, but if your white, everyone knows you are a western tourist and will most likely tolerate it. If you are a local and/or non-white, chances of it being tolerated will probably be lower. And certainly if you are female, the chances of it being tolerated is virtually 0.

And there are many laws where the police either looks the other way, or it officially does not apply to westeners (anti-LGBT laws, sex outside of marriage laws, etc.)..

There’s nothing CRT can predict that “financial class theory” won’t predict better.

I mean there are a lot of different theories about many different things that might or might not be interesting for certain people. I'm not an academic, so I don't know if CRT is usefull or not, but at the end of the day, a theory is a theory.. It probably has it's limits of usefulness, but using the state to ban/outlaw a theory seems very questionable to me on principle.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

It depends very much on where you go, which is why I said middle east. And you'll find that much of the "privilege" you feel is fear of your government. If they don't fear reprisal it will go differently as it did for those idiots who were driving across the middle east trying to prove the world was all full of love.

I never said anything about banning CRT. But the talking points here are CRT concepts.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

It depends very much on where you go, which is why I said middle east.

But "middle east" isn't one place, right? There are plenty of destinations in the middle east that are insanly popular vacation spots for westeners. Many people got rich through oil there and they know that it won't last for ever, so many places in the middle east have been shifting focus to tourism for decades now. Hell, the world's most popular international sport event was last held in the middle east, they are spending a lot of money to signal to westeners that they are welcome and will be treated like kings..

And it seems to be working as many westeners, especially Europeans, enjoy traveling to the middle east. I know a lot of people who go to the middle east for vacation and while I personally am not really extremly interested in traveling there, I have not heard anyone feeling afraid of the government there..

And you’ll find that much of the “privilege” you feel is fear of your government.

I don't find that at all.. I'm sure there are places in the middle east, like places in Afganistan for example, where I wouldn't feel save. But even Afganistan/the taliban are begging for tourists, so I would mainly be afraid of ending up in the crossfire, not that the government will specifically target me for being white.. There might be other groups who target me for being white and the government will probably fuck with me if I disregard the rules, but certainly not more so than the government fucks with the local people, who are generally seen as "non-white".

If they don’t fear reprisal it will go differently as it did for those idiots who were driving across the middle east trying to prove the world was all full of love.

No clue who you are talking about, you are gonna have to provide a few more details.

I never said anything about banning CRT.

But that's ultimately why politicians rant against "CRT", right? They want to "ban CRT" and so far, they have been successful in 16 states. And the problem of course is that according to those politicians, "CRT" can mean pretty much anything vaguely related to race, which is great for them because they can use "anti CRT" to ban a relatively wide range of topics.

This is what gets me with many conservatives, you say stuff like "we like free speech, we don't want to ban free speech", and then as soon as some politician wants to ban something you don't like, you support them..

But the talking points here are CRT concepts.

According to politicians, CRT can mean virtually anything even remotely conntected to race..

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

No clue who you are talking about, you are gonna have to provide a few more details.

https://www.npr.org/2018/07/31/634373403/d-c-couple-killed-in-tajikistan-attack-were-biking-around-the-world-together

As for the CRT stuff, I know there are some crazies and overreactions. I'm not for banning per se, but I am against giving it a preferred platform in education. I think this is actually what some of these "bannings" are; not that you can't think it or read about it, just that government paid educators are forbidden for presenting it as some kind of truth. CRT (at least from the definition I'm using) is philosophy. Bad philosophy. At a minimum, it is unsettled and therefor unsuitable to be taught as a curriculum. It can be taught as something that exists but then it needs to be given the treatment any such philosophy would get and I doubt e.g. High School educators have the background to even try that.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

https://www.npr.org/2018/07/31/634373403/d-c-couple-killed-in-tajikistan-attack-were-biking-around-the-world-together

Right but tourists getting killed because they cycled through regions where ISIS was active does not represent the middle east as a whole.. That's as if tourists were killed in America by a drug cartel and you took that as a representation of all of America.

As for the CRT stuff, I know there are some crazies and overreactions.

Those "crazies" are generally politicians who are trying to use the fear of "CRT" to create laws banning the topic from being discussed at schools.

I think this is actually what some of these “bannings” are; not that you can’t think it or read about it, just that government paid educators are forbidden for presenting it as some kind of truth.

That's how the politicians try to present it as of course. But the problem is that the way they use and classify "CRT", it can mean virtually anything connected to race, which makes such laws dangerous.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/petergreene/2021/09/29/critical-race-theory-bans-are-expanding-to-cover-broad-collection-of-issues/

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

Those “crazies” are generally politicians who are trying to use the fear of “CRT” to create laws banning the topic from being discussed at schools.

Ah but now you've changed what we're discussing. "Banning being discussed at schools" is not what anyone is doing. It's being banned from being taught at schools. And both of those things are not remotely the same as "banning CRT". Banning schools from using their position of authority over children to indoctrinate them on garbage philosophy is a reasonable position. Banning books from general consumption is not and I'm not aware of anyone doing that.

And, yes, scope creep is certainly a dangerous issue when it comes to the government. So I take this to mean you're for smaller government? :)

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