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[meme] Why do people only seem to mean cars when they talk about electric and/or autonomous vehicles?
(lemmy.world)
this post was submitted on 26 Jul 2023
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Fuck Cars
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I find these discussions seem to be dominated by young urbanites. People who don't need a car to get around as opposed to the huge number of people who live in areas that require a car to function. They are physically able to bike many miles every day in any weather.
I took public transportation when I lived in a big city and was glad to have it but anytime I needed to go beyond a limited area in the city I needed a car. Now I live in an area with very limited public transportation and very very little is in walking distance and biking for my needs is not an alternative. Frequently using 100% public transportation routes would increase your travel time by a large amount, time you may not have or want to sacrifice. If you live in country like France it seems like the transit unions have a stranglehold on the nation as they can shut down everyone at will, if you have a car you at least have an alternative. There are also breakdown issues, maintenance shutdowns, etc. You also run into the last mile issue a lot. Where you need to go is frequently not a reasonable distance from the stop. I usually needed a car to get to the train stations for instance.
That is exactly the problem. Areas that require a car to function shouldn't exist. That's what those "young urbanites" are arguing for.
And there are a lot of great point there about mixed zoning, but nuance is important. Should small towns with nearly nothing available locally, where you have to travel outside of town for most things just not exist? Even if they do have train connections (as they often do where I live, in Europe), you usually only have one train every 1-2 hours unless there's some specific significance to your town.
Improving things is a nice goal, but it often feels like here that people just want to eliminate anything that doesn't conform to their ideals of how the world should be like.
You're stating exactly what this community is about in your first paragraph. Why should they only have trains every 1-2 hours? That is the problem. What people here argue for is for the elimination of the need for cars. A car should be a situational tool, not an everyday need.
Nobody wants to eliminate small towns, this is about improving the quality of life for the people who live in them.
The reason they only have trains every 1-2 hours though is that that's the frequency at which they're operating at a desirable occupancy. You can probably popularize trains somewhat and increase it slightly, but not even close to enough to solve the problem that way.
The other option is smaller, more frequent trains. And yeah, automation could probably help there, but that's the niche cars fill currently: personalized transport that's effective and low-latency for your particular need. I do feel like this community has an affinity to reject that though, because the higher you scale each vehicle the better efficiency you get, but everyone who uses the system pays for that in scheduling and wait times.
So vast swaths of the earth should be depopulated? Hold on while they open the camps...
Who's saying that? Don't put words in my mouth. Maybe read before kneejerking.
That was a bit exaggerated, but tbh. areas where you have to use the car should be the exception, not the rule. Places where you have to drive to do stuff are a nightmare for everyone too old, too young or otherwise not able/allowed to drive or to afford a car.
Young people often have the tendency to be both ageist and ableist at times.
Hi, I'm disabled and I can't drive. Stop fucking calling the transit and walkability movement ableist. The transit and walkability movement has been life-saving to people like me.
I understand and I’m glad you’ve benefitted from it, but you’re ignoring the large number of people with disabilities that cannot walk any significant distance, while they can still drive. Old people also have an easier time driving than they do walking long distances and using public transit. Hell, I personally know plenty of people who choose to drive because they can’t walk for long without someone actively assisting them, even though they can still drive. My sibling, in fact, is one of them; the ‘transit and walkability’ movement doesn’t give two shits about them, however.
I’m not against more public transport and foot access; in fact, as an able-bodied young male who doesn’t want unnecessary debt or to be stuck in traffic, I’d prefer it. However, let’s not pretend that a lot of people haven’t been completely forgotten by the ‘lul fuck cars’ crowd.
Dutch style microcars are a greener and safer solution to physical disability and aging than full size full speed cars. Especially when you're talking about elderly people with deteriorating eyesight and slower reactions. Car dependency helps a precious few disabled people while leaving the rest of us up shit creek and contributing to the extinction of the human species. The transit and walkability movement has a solution for everyone.
Yeah, cuz people don’t need to shop. Also, I’m sorry if people like my sibling fall into a ‘precious few’ but you’re gonna need to get everyone on board if you’re selling accessibility.
Clearly.
I don't know who told you that you couldn't, but you can park a microcar at a shop.
People need space to put stuff, and there’s only so much that can be put into a dinky-ass microcar’s boot. Not to mention, people travel in groups too.
I'm guessing it's about the same amount of space as in the rear basket of a bicycle? Because that's plenty of space if the shops are accessible to visit on a daily basis, which is the case in walkable neighbourhoods.
lol you’re expecting someone who has trouble walking to shop for groceries daily?
Yeah, it's a lot less effort than the suburban car dependent 1 hour shop. You pick up a couple things from the corner store every day. In and out in two minutes. It's way less intensive
Maybe for you, but making a grocery list and buying stuff in bulk is cheaper and, even for those who live within walking distance to a store, more convenient. It’s also more time-efficient.
And, of course, this is just for groceries; people always shop for other stuff in bulk, during sales, etc.
Guess what kind of transportation has much more space for groups than a car.
Do I need to specify that I’m talking about groups where at least one person has the kind of issues where ‘walk and use trains!’ isn’t a viable solution? Or should such people just not make groups or travel with young able-bodied people?
That's not what came across in your post. It reads like a blanket argument against public transport and other alternatives, microcars specifically.
I’m not here to make blanket arguments against trains and microcars (Disclaimer: I do personally think microcars are stupid), I’m saying stuff from the perspective of a guy whose loved ones are blocked out of this perfect ‘utopia’ envisioned by the ‘fuck cars’ crowd that seems to think everything will be perfect for everyone if we just got rid of all cars. No, there are those of us who’ll be cut off from being able to live independently.
I’m all for a healthier mix of transportation and I do think we need to start designing cities and living spaces that are vibrant and healthy for humans, not a sea of gray for quick-moving metal boxes. That said, cars are useful and we should find a way to accomodate them in ways that won’t exclude those of us who really do need them.
And no microcars please.
That's all this is about. I've said it elsewhere in this thread, but no one wants to eliminate cars completely from the face of the earth (well I’m sure someone does, but that’s not what’s being talked about). They should be a situational tool, not an everyday necessity for everyone. Just because some people need them doesn't mean everyone should need them.
That sentiment is something we can both agree on.
yeah I think its aimed to help fix the high traffic areas, for me when I was able to take the train from near my home to near my work it was amazing, it went pretty much parallel to the highways so you could drive and maybe get there a little faster but riding the train made it so you had time to play game boy or read a book instead of staring at the bumper in front of you in traffic. more trains and public transportation for commuting and cars for leisure like going on a road trip to go camping
All we honestly need is a few community shared self driving cars in each neighborhood to fix the last mile issue with mass transit, but the fuck cars absolutists often would rather have trains built to every houses doorstep than admit cars could still hold a purpose.
I'm too disabled to drive, I don't live in a city, and I only bike between 0.5 and 1 km per day. I don't have the slightest need for a car and I can still do whatever I want.
Be nice if we had trams tho
I'm flattered that you think I am young or an urbanite.