this post was submitted on 07 Dec 2023
282 points (97.6% liked)

Ask Lemmy

27036 readers
1116 users here now

A Fediverse community for open-ended, thought provoking questions

Please don't post about US Politics. If you need to do this, try [email protected]


Rules: (interactive)


1) Be nice and; have funDoxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. Please familiarize yourself with them


2) All posts must end with a '?'This is sort of like Jeopardy. Please phrase all post titles in the form of a proper question ending with ?


3) No spamPlease do not flood the community with nonsense. Actual suspected spammers will be banned on site. No astroturfing.


4) NSFW is okay, within reasonJust remember to tag posts with either a content warning or a [NSFW] tag. Overtly sexual posts are not allowed, please direct them to either [email protected] or [email protected]. NSFW comments should be restricted to posts tagged [NSFW].


5) This is not a support community.
It is not a place for 'how do I?', type questions. If you have any questions regarding the site itself or would like to report a community, please direct them to Lemmy.world Support or email [email protected]. For other questions check our partnered communities list, or use the search function.


Reminder: The terms of service apply here too.

Partnered Communities:

Tech Support

No Stupid Questions

You Should Know

Reddit

Jokes

Ask Ouija


Logo design credit goes to: tubbadu


founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] [email protected] 115 points 11 months ago (2 children)

Historically it was used by white juries to let off fellow racists who committed crimes against minorities, which is why the courts discourage it.

[–] [email protected] 74 points 11 months ago (2 children)

It was also used during prohibition, and courts do more than discourage it, you can be held in contempt for mentioning it.

[–] [email protected] 33 points 11 months ago (2 children)

How is it intended to be used then, just pretend it doesn't exist till final deliberations?

It still exists, so when is it intended for?

[–] [email protected] 59 points 11 months ago

It exists only as a consequence of two other requirements of the jury process. 1) jurors cannot be held accountable for any decision they make as a jury and 2) any not guilty verdict delivered by a jury is absolute and final.

[–] [email protected] 12 points 11 months ago (1 children)

It is meant to be a final check and balance on the courts by the populace to prevent tyrannical abuse of power. Say locking up political opposition, as an example.

[–] [email protected] 24 points 11 months ago (1 children)

That's a common belief, but it's not correct. It isn't MEANT as anything. It's purely incidental. A jury not guilty finding is irreversible. And jurors have certain criminal and civil immunity in their roles as jurors. Both of those facts are important for the functioning of our legal system, but they create a loophole. This loophole was named "Jury nullification" and was mostly used for terrible things like letting racists off.

I'm not saying it's not possible to use it for good, but it's certainly not some intended function of the justice system that's being kept quiet by the powers that be.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Wasn't the guy who killed his sons rapist in plain sight of everyone let off due to jury nullification?

[–] [email protected] 8 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Gary Plauché killed his son's rapist in front of a TV crew's rolling camera, he was only charged with manslaughter and received 5 years probation and 300 hours of community service partly due to state prosecutors not believing they would be able to successfully convict him of murder due to the public's widespread support of his actions

[–] [email protected] 2 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

Soo like the threat of jury nullification?

[–] [email protected] 12 points 11 months ago

That sounds like a pretty easy constitutional violation lawsuit, though.

[–] [email protected] 18 points 11 months ago (1 children)

It's also been used by black juries to protest mass incarceration and civil rights. The so called "Bronx jury" phenomenon.

Of course this might not be explicit nullification but rather the experiences of minority juries and their skepticism of the police leading to genuine reasonable doubt.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 11 months ago

I have to admit, this is the dilemma I see; no system - Democracy, Law, Businesses, achieve their goals if a huge number of its participants have ulterior motives. You can't put 8 people in a room, and give them a "system" where they will move a ball from one side to the other, if 7 of them don't want to move it.

So while I hate the racists appearing on juries, I'm still not sure I'd use that as a justification against the practice.