Update:
The comments from this post will not be removed as to preserve the discussion around the announcement. Any continued discussions outside of this thread that violate server rules will be removed. We feel that everyone that has an opinion, and wanted to vent, has been heard.
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Original post:
Yesterday, we received information about the planned federation by Hexbear. The announcement thread can be found here: https://www.hexbear.net/post/280770. After reviewing the thread and the comments, it became evident that allowing Hexbear to federate would violate our rules.
Our code of conduct and server rules can be found here.
The announcement included several concerning statements, as highlighted below:
- βPlease try to keep the dirtbag lib-dunking to hexbear itself. Do not follow the Chapo Rules of Posting, instead try to engage utilizing informed rhetoric with sources to dismantle western propaganda. Posting the western atrocity propaganda and pig poop balls is hilarious but will pretty quickly get you banned and if enough of us do it defederated.β
- βThe West's role in the world, through organizations such as NATO, the IMF, and the World Bank - among many others - are deeply harmful to the billions of people living both inside and outside of their imperial core.β
- βThese organizations constitute the modern imperial order, with the United States at its heart - we are not fooled by the term "rules-based international order." It is in the Left's interest for these organizations to be demolished. When and how this will occur, and what precisely comes after, is the cause of great debate and discussion on this site, but it is necessary for a better world.β
The rhetoric and goal of Hexbar are clear based on their announcement: to "dismantle western propaganda" and "demolish organizations such as NATOβ shows that Hexbar has no intention of "respecting the rules of the community instance in which they are posting/commenting.β Itβs to push their beliefs and ideology.
In addition, several comments from a Hexbear admin, demonstrate that instance rules will not be respected.
Here are some examples:
βI can assure you there will be no lemmygrad brigades, that energy would be better funneled into the current war against liberalism on the wider fediverse.β
βAll loyal, honest, active and upright Communists must unite to oppose the liberal tendencies shown by certain people among us, and set them on the right path. This is one of the tasks on our ideological front.β
- https://lemmy.world/comment/121850
- https://lemmy.world/comment/1487168
- https://lemmy.world/comment/1476084
- https://lemmy.world/comment/171595
- https://www.hexbear.net/comment/3648500
Overall community comments:
- https://www.hexbear.net/comment/3526128
- https://www.hexbear.net/comment/3526086
- https://www.hexbear.net/comment/3652828
To clarify, for those who have inquired about why Hexbear versus Lemmygrad, it should be noted that we are currently exploring the possibility of defederating from Lemmygrad as well based on similar comments Hexbear has made.
- https://lemmygrad.ml/post/158656
- https://lemmygrad.ml/comment/882559
- https://lemmygrad.ml/comment/540170
- https://lemmygrad.ml/comment/446529
Defederation should only be considered as a last resort. However, based on their comments and behavior, no positive outcomes can be expected.
We made the decision to preemptively defederate from Hexbear for these reasons. While we understand that not everyone may agree with our decision, we believe it is important to prioritize the best interests of our community.
It's interesting how much right wingers and fake communists hate the "libs".
Anyone can see that liberalism is inherently more aligned with leftist/communist/anarchist properties and cannot exist under capitalism.
Liberalism is literally the ideology of free markets. It IS capitalism.
That is capitalist apologia and propaganda.
Capitalism and "free" markets are authoritarian and hierarchical
Read a fucking book I am on my knees literally begging you. Get an absolutely basic level of political literacy, PLEASE.
Congratulations, you have discovered the inherent contradiction of the "free" liberal ideology
There's nothing new to me in how right-wingers steal terminology. But if someone discovers that now then that's great.
Right-wingers have appropriated themselves of leftist terminology many times (notably, "right libertarianism", "anarcho capitalism", and "national socialism") but liberalism is already right-aligned as its still fundamentally capitalist despite being superficially progressive - permitting the oppressed the hope for change through reform, and giving every poor sucker the "freedom" to get fucked by the social/economic heirarchies of the status quo. Liberalism is how you get greenwashing and rainbow capitalism.
Nah, liberalism is in essence movement away from any authoritarianism, including the shackles of capitalism.
It's a capitalist hegemony mindset where it's seen somehow possible inside it. Pink washing is a good example. Marketing works for the masses and people conflating the idea is proof of it.
I feel obliged to inform you that you're using that word in a way that nobody else on Earth uses it. It sounds like you're trying to describe anarchism/libertarianism (not the so-called "libertarianism" in the US), but calling it liberalism.
Don't worry, I know that the capitalist marketed version has penetrated the anglosphere. But still general knowledge like wikipedia corroborates what I'm saying
Could you link me the wikipedia article / paragraph you're referring to?
The first sentence of the article on Liberalism states:
Private property is a fundamentally capitalist concept.
Also, "consent of the governed" is non-existent in practice.
Continue reading if you're interested. In that quote you'll already see properties which aren't possible in capitalism.
In capitalism money buys these. They're not available as is.
Private property is a topic for itself. I can't think of a current ideology which prohibits owning a TV or a toothbrush. Some ideas separate that as personal property and private property actually talks about the means of production.
Private means of production is "foundational" to capitalism. Not derived from it β it can exist without it as well.
This wikipedia page adds a bit more but that's the gist of it
A few rhetorical questions:
Are private means of production where an owner takes most of the profit instead of it being fair among workers and owners, or worker-owners, something that is compatible with economic freedom?
Or does a capitalist system offer more freedom to someone in this scenario?
So then, can someone claim in good faith capitalism as liberal when it's based on such means of production ownership?
Mate it sounda like you've got some nice ideals but are mixing them up with the wrong terminology.
What you described is personal property, not private property.
The fact that under capitalism, "rights" are bought is precisely why the "freedom" under liberalism is fake.
Also, what do you mean with your rhetorical question example? That it wouldn't happen under liberalism because such heirarchies would be prevented by governmental reform?
The same way we didn't (and don't) have real communism, we don't have real capitalism. There is no free market and there never was.
I think that closest to ideal communism was ex Yugoslavia, in which workers actually owned factories, but wasn't able to compete with power agresive western "capitalism" was attacking. Which is expected, since Yugoslavia was focused on quality of life not on profits and performance.
Communism is not a magic button, it is a process of development. Reaching the higher-stage communism you're referring to is very likely to be outside any of our lifetimes it is far easier to talk about socialism as the transitional state between capitalism and eventual communism. Communists being in power doesn't mean we magically press a button and suddenly everyone lives in a utopia of stateless material abundance, it just means the socialist state is working towards it, the transition between capitalism and communism.
What the socialist state itself looks like differs widely based on the conditions, just like capitalism has a huge amount of variance based on the conditions. Each nation has very different needs, problems and cultural idiosyncrasies that result in the socialist state needing to look quite different for each of them. The outcome is ultimately determined by those conditions, and by the conditions imposed upon it in its defence of itself against capitalist onslaught attempting to destroy it.