604
Considering last night's results, I don't expect NATO to be credible 4 years from now
(sh.itjust.works)
this post was submitted on 06 Nov 2024
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NonCredibleDefense
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Okay but if we are guaranteed to lose without them, what's the harm in giving them what they want? Losing while taking the morally right position is never wrong. We spit in the Arab/Muslim/Palestinians/far left Americans faces and they stayed home on election day. So what's the harm in at least giving into their demands? The Republicans do that for their base and are winning even when they lose elections. So I'm arguing a change in tactics because we are literally taking the insanity route if we don't.
They dont have the morally high ground. They chose to help a fascist get to power. These idiots should never get what they want since they have shown to be completely brain dead. But to get to your point better. Giving them what they want means losing all pro israel people to Trump. Staiying between both positions gets people from both sides. However you cannot give the pro palestine people in america what they want since many want a genocide against israel instead which is just as inacceptable as the status quo.
Uhhhh no... Just no... Most Palestinian Americans don't want genicide to go the other way... And the people living in Palestinian don't have the capability to even have running water, electricity, airforce or navy let alone the capability to do a genicide so just no. Pro Isreal / pro genicide people were going to vote for Trump regardless... How about a no genicide party? Is that too much to ask?
Difference between you and rational people is we are trying to get the best and not just the least worst people. I voted blue but it's obvious change is needed.
Genocide is exactly what Hamas would do if they did have the capacity. Israel could wipe out every single one of them if they wanted to. They haven't. Wiping out jews is the stated goal of Hamas in the 1988 charter.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genocide_denial
"Hardly anybody died"
When the genocides lie far in the past, denial is easier.
"It was self defense"
The killing of civilians, especially able bodied males is rationalized in preemptive attack, as they are accused of plotting against the perpetrators. The perpetrator may exterminate witnesses and relatives of the victims.
I love that you lost to a felon and still engage in denialism, it's like you guys are unable to learn anything.
I'm not American
Don't get me wrong, Hamas are the worst of the "other" side but that's why we would fight them as well if the roles were reversed. But I won't want to achieve that goal by killing 40k innocent people. I'd be just as upset and angry. It's asking for no genicide regardless of who's the perpetrator or whos the victims?!
And also your argument is the equivalent to saying those being surprised by a stronger power can only fight back by conviction means? Or that the Palestinian people having negative views towards religious fundamentalist who are literally killing and starving their friends and family, forfeit their lives for said negative views? For example if you asked jews people in concentration camps during WWII if they had negative views towards German people, and taking their answer as a determining factor on if they live or die... Nazi Germany also called jews freedom fighters in occupied Poland terrorist. And some of those freedom fighters committed horrific crimes against German civilians... Was Nat Turner a freedom fighter or terrorist? Were native American raids on settlements built on their ancestors land righteous or terrorism?
Hamas wasn't created in a vaccum.
Despite the high number of civilian casualties, Israel is actually doing a better job at it that the US has with their skirmishes in the middle east. It's not like they're not trying to minimize the civilian casualties, Hamas just makes it really hard by using their population as human shields.
Also, if you look at the videos of Israeli civilian hostages dragged thru the streets of Gaza after the october 7 invasion, there's a good number of palestinian civilians cheering. Would the Israeli population be doing the same thing were IDF to drag raped Palestinian women thru the streets of Israel? I doubt it.
Hamas is a death cult. There's no negotiating with them. The only solution is their complete destruction and showing the world that these views will not be tolerated. It's the average muslim who suffers the most because of these religious extremists.
Me: Let's stop all genicide and oppression everywhere by whom ever.
You: ummm actually if we didn't genicide them, they'd genicide us...
Me: The fuck?!
You: and America's modern genicides and atrocities were much worse...
Me: The fuck is wrong with you!
Somehow every attempt to reason with people like you ends up to you getting pissed and ending the discussion.
I'm interested in real life solutions. Not fantasies. You can advocate for 'stopping genocide and oppression everywhere' all you want. Religious extremists like Hamas, Hezbollah, Houthis and ISIS couldn't care less about your wishes. Death for Isreal and death for America is what they want and they'll happily tell you this.
Just come out and say your pro genicide man. Stop hiding behind Hamas as the reason for the Palestinian peoples current situation. Like I don't even have to look far within Israeli government to find leaders openly saying, "Ya we are going to kill or expelle every Palestinian."
Just come out and day it. You think every Arab and Muslim is a religious extremist and are terrorists. Just stop hiding behind the idea that the millions of people mostly kids and women in Palestine are acceptable casualties as long as it's them and not us. Why aren't we offering asylum to all none Hamas extremist in Palestine so we can protect them as well? Just say you are pro genicide dude.