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We are not afraid of ruins: On violent takeover of our home and social center Syrena by macho-anarchists
(theanarchistlibrary.org)
this post was submitted on 19 Jun 2023
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Socialism
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Im just saying they are already statist. They are doing everything states do. So your question isn’t really much of a gotcha.
This isn't a 'gotcha' game. I'm giving you an opportunity to explain the words you're using, so I can better understand how you have come to an apparently self-refuting conclusion. I'm glad that my assumption was correct that you must be using a words in ways they weren't intended. Are you just posting to 'dunk' on anarchism, or do you want to be understood?
You are a 'statist' then. What functions would a minarchist state perform?
Pretty much exactly what their state performed. War, courts, police.
I’m looking to form my worldview better. I started out more Chomsky-esc, believing in the elimination of unjust hierarchies. But I’m told he’s more minarchist because all hierarchy is unjust. But it’s obvious that the elimination of hierarchy historically just leads to the creation of new hierarchy’s, and I think this article is a microcosm of that. I’ve never even been able to run a public interest group without a constitution for the group, excommunication of troublemakers, etc. That’s called a state.
So my intention isn’t to argue what I personally believe the state to do. It’s to say that they are minarchists whether they want to be or not. They formed a council (court), formed a mob to kick out a member (police), and participated in a war with a neighbor (military). Even as a small society that was unavoidable, imagine doing it with a city.
I think the confusion here might be in the qualities of what anarchists mean when they say "state." It is commonly remarked that anarchists are against the state. But as you can probably imagine, they are not opposed to, say, libraries. Or emergency services. Or sewer lines.
What "the state" represents, what anarchists are opposed to, is the upholding of the status quo. The reproduction of the system that murders people, pollutes the environment, enforces the necessity of wage slavery, protects billionaires and punishes the homeless.
That giant system of oppression (capitalism) is not something these small groups can or want to do. Forming councils is very different from the prison industrial system. Kicking out a member is very different from arresting someone for stealing bread to feed his family. And scuffles with neighbors is hardly a war. These are the actions (right or wrong) of groups of friends. This is human-level drama.
What anarchists oppose is the giant machine that is not human-sized; the unstoppable Leviathan that does not think or feel but rather lumbers eternally toward ever greater destruction and madness. It is the worldwide money monster that cuts the trees, turns farmland into parking lots, treats chickens like factory parts, and ensures there are more empty buildings than there are unhoused people.
"The state" is the nation-state, yes. But it is also (and more importantly), the "state of things." The awful, joyless, depressing, inescapable state of things. That is what anarchists really oppose.
Caveats: 1) Not all anarchists feel this way. 2) I speak mostly from a North American perspective. 3) I didn't read the article. 4) I'm a lemmy noob.
I feel that way, I’m becoming more anti capitalist by the day. But like, I still want cities is what I keep coming back to. I still want trains, global shipment of goods, technology. Post capitalism to me means freedom and wealth shared equitably among a global population. So a failure of a microcosm to me means a failure to scale.