this post was submitted on 13 Aug 2023
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No surprises here. Just like the lockdown on iPhone screen and part replacements, Macbooks suffer from the same Apple's anti-repair and anti-consumer bullshit. Battery glued, ssd soldered in and can't even swap parts with other official parts. 6000$ laptop and you don't even own it.

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[–] [email protected] 126 points 1 year ago (3 children)

Framework laptops are getting better. Not Apple levels good, but it certainly beats them in average longevity.

The only hope with Apple is having the EU step in again to stop this kind of bullcrap.

[–] [email protected] 33 points 1 year ago (2 children)

I love the idea of Framework and I want to get one, but the price is multiple times of what I paid for my current machine... and this is better than the Framework in several ways. I'm hoping that a few of the Frameworks make it onto the second hand market and I'll buy one there. The idea of a laptop that's easy to replace and lasts forever is brilliant though, and I hope they take off.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 1 year ago (1 children)

What did you get and for how much? To me it seems the framework (at least the 16) is only a bit (100-200 out of 1600) more expensive than laptops with similar specs.

[–] [email protected] 13 points 1 year ago

I paid approx $700 for a i5 with a Geforce 3050 and a 144hz screen. The RAM was weak but it was upgrade able so I got it up to 40GB, about $800 all up. It's an MSI.

The only downside is that it's such a pain to take apart and it's put together in a way where there's a very real chance of doing permanent damage when taking off the cover, since the case actually wraps around the ports and makes the motherboard bend when you apply any pressure to it. It came with 8GB of RAM out of the box, so basically unusable without the upgrade; still, I'm very happy with it atm.

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[–] [email protected] 11 points 1 year ago (2 children)

I would love a Framework laptop, but my current laptop (a Dell XPS 15 from 2017) is still going strong. Buying a new repairable laptop defeats the whole sustainable thing if there's nothing wrong with my current one. I've done 2 fixes to my current laptop: Replaced the speakers that had died, and added thermal pads to the VRMs to fix an overheating / throttling issue. Even the battery is fine still.

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[–] [email protected] 71 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

another example of why apple laptops are so expensive.

80% of the price is to cover the R&D for fucking over the consumer.

Seriously, tying the goddamn *hall effect sensor to the system so it cant be replaced? Thats some freaking cyberpunk level corpo shitbaggery.

[–] [email protected] 64 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Apple is making really good hardware but we should stop buying it because of what they are doing against repairabality or because of the fact that they trying to capture you in their ecosystem.

[–] [email protected] 28 points 1 year ago (3 children)

I have a MBP 2015 and I love all the integrations with other stuff like my iPhone and Apple Watch, but every time I see a convenience feature like "Scan from iPhone" I just stop for a second and think "Imagine that was an open source, documented API that any developer could both hook into and implement into something like Windows or Linux."

Apple is so good at making everything just work when everything is Apple. Truly, I think if this problem was solved for PC users, it would take away from Apple's market share

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[–] [email protected] 25 points 1 year ago

They've significantly overcharged for their products for the past 20 years. If you can't get people to give a fuck about the bottom line, good luck getting them to care about anything else

[–] [email protected] 63 points 1 year ago (39 children)

I'm going to put this out there as just an idea, don't buy apple products.

They're shit they've always been shit and they've never been financially worth buying.

[–] [email protected] 32 points 1 year ago (2 children)

I just got an M2 MBP. In my personal experience it is very much not "shit".

Expensive and a PITA to fix? Quite possibly.

[–] [email protected] 17 points 1 year ago (26 children)

+1 apple products are very much not shit. Otherwise people wouldnt buy and use them as prolifically as they do.

I started using Macbooks because the user experience on windows laptops sucks in comparison.

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[–] [email protected] 13 points 1 year ago (2 children)

They are a lifestyle brand and play on that to keep people trapped. People who buy Apple like the aesthetic of appearing wealthy. It's classism through consumerism, even if the consumers don't realise it.

Apple's terrible privacy policy (yes, despite the word privacy appearing in the ads), atrocious right to repair stance, and aggressive software lock-in tactics should put any person who cares about those things off.

There was a purpose to buying Apple when they were the only player in the specific niche. Audio engineering is a great example of this. In the 90's, Apple were really the only valid choice in a highly specialist field. Microsoft caught up in the 2000s, with Linux not too far behind in the 2010's.

So nowadays, the limitations are effectively self-imposed. You can spend whatever money you want on a setup that will do whatever you need and the OS is a personal preference.

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[–] [email protected] 53 points 1 year ago (15 children)

All of their products are anti consumer and they have been for years. I don't understand why people still buy their products

[–] [email protected] 18 points 1 year ago (3 children)

Because I love the platform. I've been a Mac user for decades. People harp on marketing making us foam at the mouth for these products, but I genuinely love them. I also hate some decisions, but the time to switch platforms is not today or in the foreseeable future.

Yes, Linux would let me do most of what I want to do. But I appreciate the design of indie Mac apps. They're far beyond the polish of apps on Linux and Windows.

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[–] [email protected] 17 points 1 year ago

They're great work laptops, as long as you treat them as basically disposable. If I have a problem, just turn it into IT and grab another, pull down the repos and I'm off. Wouldn't buy one with my own money, though.

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[–] [email protected] 45 points 1 year ago (27 children)

You'll own nothing and be happy.

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[–] [email protected] 38 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (26 children)

So, genuine question.

What other laptops are there with comparable screens? Colour gamut, accuracy and all the good stuff Apple does so well.

Some day I might need something to work with on the go, and I need a good display.

Edit: Well, didn't expect so many answers in as little time, thank you

[–] [email protected] 23 points 1 year ago

Asus OLED laptop screens are as good (or better depending on what your criteria are). If you do print, they are Pantone Validated.

[–] [email protected] 12 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

I've been using a Lenovo Yoga Pro 9i (or Slim Pro 9i if you're in the US) for around half a year now and have been loving it so far. 14" MiniLED screen, 100% DCI-P3, can get really bright, has a touch screen (if that's something you like) and a 165 Hz refresh rate. Can't speak for the color accuracy though.

I got the i9 variant with 32GB RAM and an RTX 4060 GPU during a "Mega Power" sale and with an additional 10% off as a Student for just over 2000€, but even the normal price is "only" (compared to your MacBooks and XPSs) around 2500€ iirc.

RAM is sadly soldered onto the motherboard but at least you get 6400MHz for it. Storage is upgradeable.

Connectivity is great (2x USB-C with PD3.1 for 140W charging, one also supporting Thunderbolt 4, HDMI, full-size SD Card reader, 2x USB-A...)

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[–] [email protected] 38 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I just recently had a 2020 gen MacBook pro die on me. When I took it to the genius bar, they said that it was a power issue that they couldn't repair unless they changed the whole logic board which would cost me $500 and without the ability to recover the data on the soldered SSD. What's worse is that they sent me to a 3rd party data recovery company to recover my data for $1200. I ended up declining the data recovery and just accepted that my data is gone and bought a thinkpad to replace the laptop.

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[–] [email protected] 31 points 1 year ago (2 children)

They bring a sex doll to their meetings and spend hours trying to figure out the best way to fuck consumers.

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[–] [email protected] 28 points 1 year ago (29 children)

It's so annoying. I want to love Apple, heck I've been there and HAD Apple everything. They have a great *nix OS, well polished ecosystem, very good security and privacy practices... but hostility towards repair, along with planned obsolescence, ended up turning me off. One aspect is sustainability. Repair is more sustainable than recycle. They have good recycling credentials but that should be last resort.

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[–] [email protected] 28 points 1 year ago

Awesome!

Always like people that fight for right to repair!

Anyone know if Louis Rossman and these and other people have done collabs or something similar?

Louis Anthony Rossmann (born November 19, 1988) [2] [3] is an American independent repair technician, YouTuber, and right to repair activist. He is the owner and operator of Rossmann Repair Group in Austin, Texas (formerly New York City ), a computer repair shop established in 2007 which specializes in logic board-level repair of MacBooks.

[–] [email protected] 20 points 1 year ago (8 children)

As someone who generally makes a point to buy laptops with as much upgradeability as possible, I ended up going with an M1 Pro then M2 Max MBP.

I really don't like how much Apple charges for RAM and storage and that I'm stuck with 32GB and 1TB until I buy an entire new laptop, but I just can't ignore how ridiculously powerful and efficient Apple Silicon is for programming, compiling, and even limited gaming.

It also helps that it's made of metal, unlike most PC laptops at similar prices. I've always had terrible luck with plastic bodies: broken hinges, broken traces on the motherboard from excessive flexing, etc.

In my fantasy utopia, Apple would have slots for adding extra storage and "slow" RAM to all its computers, but that's not happening.

[–] [email protected] 15 points 1 year ago (4 children)

I have a 2011 MacBook Air and it isn't supported anymore but I've put Fedora Linux on it. It's snappy and the track pad is still fantastic.

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[–] [email protected] 12 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I'm a big believer in self-repair. And right to repair. I buy framework laptops. Because I believe.

I just can't deny however that Apple MacBooks last forever. I personally have a MacBook that still working after 9 years. Right to repair has less meaning when the laptop lasts a decade.

So my current recommendation to people is get a MacBook Air, but if they're technical, then I recommend a framework

[–] [email protected] 15 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (5 children)

"last forever" is an overstatement, the lastest macOS only supports device until 2017: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT213264 ; That is only 6 years old, that is around the phone support period around a later pixel phone, which is not even a company that focus on sustainability.

Although you can probably throw linux on it to extend its life, but I dont know if it is as easy as install it on a normal laptop.

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[–] [email protected] 20 points 1 year ago (1 children)

yea this is why i couldnt care less about apple silicon. atleast with AMD/Intel and most ARM CPUs/SOCs you have the flexibility to do whatever you want. With AS you are limited to whatever shit Apple provides.

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[–] [email protected] 17 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

I really dislike Apple's business practices. I remember replacing a screen on a friend's iPhone and the display flex cable would not provide a proper connection without the little metal bracket over the top of it being installed. Honestly thought the replacement display was broken at a point. Never seen such on an android phone.

[–] [email protected] 16 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Considering the serious move EU as made regarding right to repair and imposing that any equipment must be repairable and have parts for it for at least 10 years, this ia going to be another serious pain for this brand.

I've also read an article recently where it was reported that all cell phones circulating in the EU must have replaceable batteries. And from what I took from the article it was meant replaceable by the end user.

Serious anti obsolescence legislation.

This will hurt Apple again.

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[–] [email protected] 15 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I'd really like to buy a Mac mini but that mark up on RAM is insane, with that money I can get 8x the same amount of DDR 5

The base config it's too limited and I can't accept to pay 250 euro for 8 extra gigs of RAM and another 250 euro for 250 extra gigs of SSD

Now if they just sold an ITX M2 motherboard with slots for DDR 5, m.2 and PCI express, I could pay 800 euro for that...

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[–] [email protected] 11 points 1 year ago

at this point i dont care about apple products.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 1 year ago (8 children)

Man fuck Apple, how can anyone purchase anything from a company like this.

[–] [email protected] 34 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (7 children)

The sad fact is that they get away with it because they have the best laptops out there in terms of build quality and user comfort (try using a Macbook touchpad and then any other one after it).

They also have the best software integration because they have to support a limited number of hardware configurations

[–] [email protected] 20 points 1 year ago

… try using a Macbook touchpad and then any other one after it.

^ This.

Have been given a current Surface Pro laptop for work and must use an external mouse, or rage in frustration that my 13 yo MBP has a better functioning trackpad.

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