this post was submitted on 12 Jun 2024
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Communism

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[–] [email protected] 20 points 4 months ago (1 children)

This is half true but I think half not.

A key part of the Indian independence movement, and the US civil rights movement, was throwing it into absolutely crystal clear relief what was the violent and unjust nature of the system they were up against. Gandhi's speech to the judge, black men marching in orderly rows in suits and getting attacked with dogs and water cannons played out on TV, the absolute inescapable moral logic which gradually worked itself bit by bit to penetrate into the public consciousness -- these were important parts of why both of those movements worked.

Certainly more than asking politely is required; I don't fully disagree with Shakur's statement. But oppressive systems are massive things, made up of people who have all kinds of motivations and levels of humanity and understandings of the world around them. Abandoning completely the idea of appealing to the moral sense of the people involved in them is a mistake, I think.

[–] [email protected] 13 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (1 children)

I think that both of your examples only worked because there was a contemporary, more militant version of the same movement, and the peaceful protestors were seen as a more palatable alternative.

As police and military units cracked down on militant revolutionaries/protestors, the people remaining in those movements moved toward more non-violent methods just as mainstream perception grew to see non-violent protest as more reasonable.

So the non-violent movement was pivotal in both cases, but I didn't think non-violent protest accomplishes either goal on its own.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

I think you might be right, yes. The result of Gandhi's speech to the judge which came with no real backing of a massive movement behind it, was "cool story bro" and prison.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 4 months ago (1 children)

What should haunt many people right now is that so many civil rights leaders are still alive, and they're almost all standing against the horrors inflicted by the US government even when a democrat controls it.

Imagine thinking you're on the right side of history against Angela fucking Davies? Against Assata Shakur? These people are still here to remind everyone how their work is never finished.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Imagine thinking you’re on the right side of history against Angela fucking Davies? Against Assata Shakur?

Libs have even less problem with it now than the last time, just call them tankies, antisemites, putler bots or whatever else.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 4 months ago

The Red Scare's greatest lie is that the Cold War is over.