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For context, there have been literally dozens of senators, congressmen and other high-level Republicans, like his own VP, campaigning for Trump to step down and have been for years
Alternative Title:
How to Give In to Propaganda and Tank Your Own Party
by The Donkeys
Foreword by Slavering Journalists
For context, there have been literally dozens of senators, congressmen and other high-level Republicans, like his own VP, campaigning for Trump to step down and have been for years
For additional context, they didn't suddenly ask him to step down in the period when he was the presumptive nominee and president. They were opposed to him, quite openly, before that; or else waited until he had lost.
This is a very unusual situation, and we must treat it as such.
Republicans previously supporting Trump for his entire presidency suddenly asked trump to step down, and are coming out of the woodwork to do so.
It's pretty much the same thing except for the reasoning.
For trump, his former supporters pretended to be surprised that he wasn't joking about attempting a coup.
For Biden, they are pretending to be surprised that an 81-year-old sometimes talks like an 81-year-old.
Republicans did though. Republicans previously supporting Trump for his entire presidency suddenly asking trump to step down, and coming out of the woodwork to do so.
For the 2020 campaign, in the period that he was the presumptive nominee?
Like, this isn't making a u-turn in the parking lot. This is making a u-turn on the fucking highway. Dem Congresscritters are dependent on a Dem ticket victory to help them keep their seats - one can generally assume that they are better informed as to Biden's chances of victory than most. Pelosi all but asked Biden to step down in a public statement. That's not nothing, man. That's serious. That's fucking serious. Pelosi, like Biden, is a party loyalist. She's not going to ask a Dem incumbent, and certainly not a Dem incumbent aligned with her wing of the party, to step down unless things are fucked.
That's the current bandwagon take, but it doesn't hold up under any scrutiny.
Pelosi obviously isn't a party loyalist if she's not backing Biden.
Republicans fall in line regardless of their beliefs because all they want to do is be the more powerful party.
Democrats want to change things for the better and often get so caught up trying to prove that their specific, individual way forward is better than anybody else's that they sacrifice the policy for their own interests or glory.
She's reading the same hatchet pieces you are and watching the same 5-second clips of one public appearance and is having the same unwarranted, excitable reactions that many people have convinced you are relevant to the administration of the executive office.
I don't see anybody complaining that an overdramatic media cycle is "nothing", but it has nothing to do with the successful first-term administration of the Biden executive office passing progressive policies.
People like getting caught up in gossip more than they care about the administration of the executive office.
Pelosi obviously isn’t a party loyalist if she’s not backing Biden.
That's just the thing. She is a party loyalist - not a Biden loyalist.
Pelosi has shown before, as have many other politicians, that they more interested in keeping their seats of power than they are in advancing the policies of the Democratic party.
Yes, but the thing of it is, Pelosi's power? Pretty connected to who's in office - a Democrat or a Republican. She has every reason to want a Dem president.
She’s reading the same hatchet pieces you are and watching the same 5-second clips of one public appearance and is having the same unwarranted, excitable reactions that many people have convinced you are relevant to the administration of the executive office.
Man, Pelosi is one of the people who are ACTUALLY in contact with Joe Biden. Even putting the claim of Congresscritters watching the same things I am aside, she is very distinctly NOT in that position.
You're conflating symptoms of holding on to power with characteristics of loyalty.
You're apparently convinced that replacing Biden, who has successfully passed major progressive legislation, is the right move because an extreme minority of democratic politicians and (not coincidentally) majority of conservatives want Biden to step down because...he's behaving exactly the same as he has been for the first 4 years of his presidency.
Are you also happy that Gore was pressured to step down because of the media consensus that "he was boring"?
Does that ring a bell?
People got excited about name calling and missed out on progressive climate change and the Green New deal a generation ago.
How about Hillary Clinton being so "ill" that she couldn't be relied upon to faithfully execute the presidency?
People got excited about name calling and the US got arguably the worst president ever in American history.
People get excited about name calling, especially when popular culture tells them that it's good to get excited about it.
Gore was too "boring", Hillary was too "ill", and Biden, regardless of having zero problem administrating the presidency for the past 4 years up to the present day, is too "old" to administrate the office of the presidency.
It's fun for a lot of people to agree with popular invective because it's a small and irrelevant topic they can understand and comment on, but that doesn't make the invective correct or in any way a valid reason to judge a presidency or candidacy.
You’re apparently convinced that replacing Biden, who has successfully passed major progressive legislation, is the right move because an extreme minority of democratic politicians and (not coincidentally) majority of conservatives want Biden to step down
How many Dem congresscritters coming out would it take to convince you that it's not just a minority? Keeping in mind that making a public statement is already a very radical position, especially at this point in the race.
A majority would convince me that a minority is not a minority....
It's a damaging position for pelosi and others to take especially at this point in the race.
But not radical, since the calls are not new or departing from the norm.
Like the calls for Gore and Clinton to step down from their candidacies for similarly irrelevant reasons.
Heck, pelosi is 3 years older than Biden.
By your reckoning, your championing of pelosi is invalid because she's too old.
Like the calls for Gore and Clinton to step down from their candidacies for similarly irrelevant reasons.
They weren't the incumbents, and weren't being asked by sitting congressmen to step down at the last possible minute for the good of the party.
By your reckoning, your championing of pelosi is invalid because she’s too old.
At what point have I used age as my reasoning for why Biden needs to be replaced?
That's the argument people are using that you're agreeing with.
It's the same type of irrelevant invective used by conservatives before to great success.
Doesn't make the insults relevant arguments.
That’s the argument people are using that you’re agreeing with.
No, the argument the Congressmen are making is that Biden is not up to the task of running a presidential campaign. If it was just his age, they would have spoken up before. He didn't suddenly jump in age a few years, surprising everyone.
He didn't surprise everyone.
Everyone is pretending they're surprised.
Him not being able to faithfully execute the office of the presidency is obviously an illogical argument since he's been doing it for 4 years straight without a problem.
Him not being able to faithfully execute the office of the presidency is obviously an illogical argument since he’s been doing it for 4 years straight without a problem.
Okay, a few things here.
Age, even without any other factors, does sap your capabilities. This may shock you, but Biden is not as lively as he was 10 years ago. Shocking, I know.
The argument is not that he is incapable of executing the office of the presidency, but that he is incapable of running a campaign of the intensity necessary to defeat the fascists in the GOP, while simultaneously executing the office of the president.
Biden is at the age where degeneration can happen very quickly. He's unlikely to get better. He's likely to get worse.
This is exactly my point. You're pretending to be surprised that he's old so that you can agree with a pop culture invective that is entirely irrelevant to his presidency and candidacy.
Same thing as Gore being "boring" or Clinton being "ill".
Conservative insults with a grain of truth that are completely irrelevant to their policies or ability to administrate the executive branch, but very damaging to their candidacy.
Don't let this shock you, but a political candidate might win or lose any election regardless of their "intensity".
Biden didn't need to be as much of an asshole as one of the GOP when he won 4 years ago, he doesn't have to now.
Biden is old.
Being old hasn't stopped him winning the presidency already and passing progressive legislation for the past 4 years.
Insults have no bearing on biden's performance during his presidency or his candidacy.
You're anxious.
Take your anxieties further to their logical conclusions.
Not exactly a nightmare scenario.
Do you think repeating thetired and demonstrably false conservative complaints that have been irrelevant for biden's entire first term are going to benefit scenario 1 or scenario 2?
Don’t let this shock you, but a political candidate might win or lose any election regardless of their “intensity”.
Biden didn’t need to be as much of an asshole as one of the GOP when he won 4 years ago, he doesn’t have to now.
Fuck, man, by intensity I don't mean being an asshole, I mean the tempo of the campaign. Speeches, visits, interviews.
Do you think repeating thetired and demonstrably false conservative complaints that have been irrelevant for biden’s entire first term are going to benefit scenario 1 or scenario 2?
As I've said, regardless of whether or not it's true, Biden has very clearly lost the confidence of his party, and that is deeply damaging for a campaign. If Biden manages to hang onto the nomination, I'm still voting for him come November - I'll vote for a fucking potato on the Dem ticket if the alternative is fascism. But we need to act to maximize our chances of victory in November, and Biden continuing on the ticket does not maximize our chances at this point in time.
They have two debates.
Debates are politically irrelevant media circuses.
As for campaigning, Biden campaigned fine and if you watch his interviews or campaign speeches before or after the debate, he's fine.
He answers questions, he moves around fine, everything looks normal.
Biden remaining on the ticket maximizes the chances of the Democrats winning.
Condemning him because he didn't look good for two 5-second segments and a 90-minute debate over 4 years of performance?
That's what's damaging his candidacy, not his performance.
Squabbling politicians deciding that the right time to accuse Biden of being too old to administrate the office of the president despite the contrary evidence?
Damaging to the campaign.
It's absurd to imagine that showing indecision and weakness within and among the Democratic party is good for the Democratic party, especially at this point.
"...regardless of whether or not it's true..."
No, let's hold the truth in a higher regard.
Anybody who has lost confidence in Biden is not paying attention to Biden, what his presidency has achieved or what his campaign is about.
The issue is that Republicans and Trump supporters don't care if anyone calls for Trump to step down.
Yup. That's what my alternative title was for.
Still important to note that calling for a candidate to step down started with the Republicans since even some of them realized they're electing an insane person.
Do democrats? Seems like we’re entering the same fact-free reality as the right, just about 5-10 years behind.
Another article about unsubstantiated rumors of a vague number of people in undisclosed important or wealthy positions! Can we stop this flood and the presses just admit their failed coup?
We already have almost two dozen Congresscritters who have asked the presumptive nominee and the current president and incumbent to step down. It's unheard of. Regardless of what you think of Biden's ability, he has lost the confidence of the party, and that's fatal for a campaign. Our best choice at this point is to replace him.
21 at current count, there are 213 democrats, so 10%. Not much of a majority yet, that seems plenty?
All leading to, "I'm not voting for him. His own people don't even want him to be president."