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I love to hate claims like this. it’s like a fart, but ends up being a shart. No truth in the source and unjustified noise and grumbles that leaves a mess and confuses people for no reason.
Do yourself a favor, either cite links that legitimize your claims or just sign off, you’re hangry.
I'm just here to say that I've never heard any of the negative claims that OP makes from anyone else before.
What I have seen and heard is that the RPi foundation doing a lot of good by providing low cost computers for educational use and anyone else who wants a good, small, and cheap computer.
You seem to have conveniently left out power consumption.
I agree they are very pricey these days. Are there any competitiors that offer cheap low-power consumption computers?
It will not be that great like on Raspberry Pi, but Mini PC are also very low on energy. For example,. Wyse 5070 with J5005 idles around 3-5 W, which is really great. i had HP 800 Mini G3 that idled ~7-8W. Mini PCs are more powerful, expandable and can use normal SSD Drive. For selfhosting they are better, but in some places Raspberry Pi (or alternative like Orange Pi) will be better, especially when you need something small and really low power
I never heard of the orange pi!
Some of the models are very cheap. Have you tried them? If they are as reliable, I might get myself one for a couple of projects.
Yes. I have Orange Pi Zero 2 with 1 GB of RAM running Ubuntu. This is actually very powerful machine, more powerful than my Raspberry Pi 3B+. i bought it for about 180 polish zloty (around 40 euros). I use it for printing server with Ghostscript printer app installed via Snap. I also tried Wireguard and MongoDB - everything works fine. it works really well, but it sits around 50 C on CPU, so it can get hot.
Yeah, power consumption is never talked about enough when talking about that type of hardware. I do have an old PC I could use as a server, but I don't need more heating at home. Mini-PCs are cool, but how cool are they?
But anyway, I haven't been able to buy a RPi at decent price in years, so 🤷🏻♂️
I've been happy with the libre computer LePotato. It's similar to a pi board.
They're assholes to the maker community and they openly talk shit on a lot of their customer base.
You got receipts for such a strong claim?
Euuhh what? I used to use an old pc but found out I could save about NZ$100 per year on power by switching to an RPi4. It hosts about 15 things, like sonarr, radarr, home assistant, pi hole, nzbget, photoview, Frigate, and backups, without any issues. Yes it's not super power full but it's perfect for me.
This post seems like it's more about OP having an ideological axe to grind with the Raspberry Pi Foundation. Which is fine - they (and Broadcom, by extension) have made a few tactical errors in the past.
I'd still consider them an overall force of good, especially when the majority of the low-cost SBC market appears to be saturated with Rockchip-based boards with little to no support for mainline Linux.
The arguments about power usage and software compatibility seem to be a bit disingenuous, however. Except for low-power Intel Atom/Ryzen Embedded offerings, vast majority of x86(_x64) platforms are going to consume a lot more power for roughly equivalent performance as more recent ARM counterparts. Most common self-hosted services usually do have ARM binary/image distributions.
Raspberry PIs got me into Linux, python, networking and a whole bunch more.
Now, that's my job.
PIs are great for tinkering or quick jobs, specifically if you need GPIO or GPIO related peripherals and networking/monitor.
For anything that needs a computer with an ethernet port (web serving, pihole, docker, whatever) then buy some cheap knock-off or refurbished low power device.
For anything that only needs the GPIO then get some MSP32.
I've used PIs for doing crazy adapters between hardware and network. And they are awesome for that.
I've built a few projects that have also had a GUI. Also awesome for that.
But low powered PCs don't have the native GPIO support at the same cost.
And a lot of the knock-offs don't have the same library support. And certainly don't have the Linux support.
However, I made this decision a few years ago.
So, it's possible that my opinion is now out dated, and competitors have really picked up.
It's also easier for me to spend $100 knowing a pi will do it, as opposed to gambling (or spending more time/support time) on a more reasonably priced SBC.
Can you expand on some of this?
I haven't really heard much regarding them being bad to their community/customer base, though I haven't bought in a few years.
In regards to cost/performance, what are you meaning you'd need to spend extra on to match that of an old laptop or recycled machine?
Not OP, but my Lenovo tiny computer on ebay is about $60 and will run circles around a raspberry pi
Power usage isn't too much higher, it's upgradeable, and it's x86-64 architecture so more things are supported.
My tiny has an i7 and was a bit more expensive, but it's a powerful little guy. I added more ram for a total of 32, and it does better than my "old" server (technically from same era).
Can't speak for the other stuff.
facts, at this point you are paying for size, gpio and the fact that its a form factor with industrial grade options easily available. not really as useful for a hobbyist at the price though.
if you don’t want to be replacing sd cards
The truth hurts, but this is the truth. Clawing at those little shits is the most annoying thing ever.
That is a whole lot of text just to say "Rpi bad" -- its (still) the best single board computer for both performance and low power draw.
While I completely agree with you on the asshole part, you also have to factor in that right now the Pi still remains the most dominant hardware in that category. Furthermore, I think you're missing the point of what makes a hobby... a hobby.
There's plenty of stuff that maybe I don't want to self host on the same device and that I would rather host on RPI due to power consumption for example. Not all about money and recycling old computers, but regarding ecology also spending less energy it's extremely important. Imagine a full desktop computer just to host pihole + pivpn. Sorry but your statement is pretty bias.
There are a lot of reasons not to give them your money. They’re assholes to the maker community and they openly talk shit on a lot of their customer base.
Citation needed, Pi's are just a single member of the broader SBC market. They are great for a lot of projects, especially for beginners who are their primary market, or those unfamiliar with Linux systems.
It’s just not a spectacular option for hosting. In order to get a Rpi competitive with even the shittiest laptop from 7 years ago, you’re going to end up spending more than you would spend on a decent laptop from 7 years ago.
Citation needed, currently for what I use my Pi's for, they are massive overkill. A laptop has WAY more breakable, and less repairable parts. A pi is a SBC, nothing I don't need. I don't want a screen, I don't want a keyboard, I don't want an ancient battery that is probably bloated from being plugged in all the time, and I absolutely do not want a fan. Honestly the Pi zero is overkill for most of my stuff, I just do actually want a wired network port. Your measure of "competitive" is extremely flawed, because you assume the only thing a Pi is useful for is it's raw number crunching power when that's not at all what they are marketed towards. In all honesty, I'd love to see a laptop that was even 50% as good a a Pi, but for that weight and size you're looking almost entirely at used phones, whose OS is significantly more locked down. Can't exactly run Docker on Android, let alone dealing with running servers over wifi.
If it is a computer that turns on, it will likely function orders of magnitude better than an Rpi and won’t bind you to ARM architecture. My entire hosting setup was pulled out of a recycling pile for free. Install ubuntu/ubuntu server and enjoy yourself.
How could I mount a laptop to my garage door for presence detection of which car is coming and going? Would be kind of an eyesore wouldn't you think, without even mentioning the weight problems. Laptops are massive compared to a Pi. For your point on ARM specifically, that's a feature my friend. Alternative cpu architectures are pretty interesting, and I personally have been an avid RISC-V follower for years now, and am absolutely thrilled to bits waiting for a standardized RV solution like the Pi. How lucky of you to just be given everything for free, thanks for taking e-waste out of the landfills for a little while I guess. Most of us have to buy the products we use, maybe getting something from a friend once in a while.
If you intend on spending any amount of money on this hobby, I cannot express enough how much I recommend against any of that money going toward a Raspberry Pi.
What do you recommend instead?
I use mine for my pihole and have been pretty happy. $40 bucks, tiny footprint and power consumption. I have a 3 from 2018. I get where your coming from but gonna need some sauce for your claims.
Yes, agreed...running pi-hole on a RP3b and it works great! Have been running it 24/with Raspbian and the same SD card for over 5 years.
and won’t bind you to ARM architecture
Just wait when people start self-hosting stuff in RISC-V machines lol
X86_64 being a duopoly is a worse scenario. So, I'm happy to fight in the middle of software poorly tested in different architectures.
If I need something more powerful for stuff like my Minecraft server I use an old laptop running Fedora, but my pi 4 works great as a super low profile, low power, stable http and ssh server.
What's this stuff about the pi foundation being assholes though, can someone fill me in?
What if I care about power draw? Should I go for alternatives? BananaPi, OrangePi and so on?
With super high relative power consumption, sure.
Also nothing much wrong with ARM.
I'll need to get some links on any of this. But I generally use VM's or VPS my self.
What a spectacularly ironic post OP. You make an incredible claim while providing zero proof. Can you see how that makes you the asshole, talking shit about RPi foundation? On top of that you edited your post to call us all stupid for calling you out. Incredible.
The moderator team will take this as a learning opportunity. We don't have any rules for this community specific to rudeness or insults. This post was fine as an opinion piece until Edit 2. For this reason, I'm locking the post. Additionally, we'll be updated the community rules on the Sidebar shortly.
I've been using Pi 4 since 2019 and it's helped me manage stuff through the pandemic. I also overall agree with this post since I've spent many many hours diagnosing issues with the Pi that otherwise would not have happened on other mini PCs.
That said, there really isn't a market for mini PCs in my region so this is what I'm stuck with for the foreseeable future.
If anyone is looking for ARM SBC alternatives since Raspberry Pis are so expensive:
Do note that if you are doing any IOT/anything with the pin inputs/outputs of an SBC, you're going to have to match the pins/change some config in your code to make it work with these boards. It shouldn't be too hard, it's an SBC after all, but compatibility issues arise all the same.
Cheers
I do agree that stuff like the RPi 4 is in a weird spot where it's too weak for a lot of things but also too expensive for the light stuff. The biggest gripes I have are the SD cards which makes data intensive tasks impossible/expensive and overall makes it so you need to think about not causing to much writing. That and how hard they are to place. Large enough to be ugly and in the way but small so they're awkward to find a good spot for.
However I think the RPi zeroes are amazing for building small but intelligent sensors like picking up when a specific bluetooth device enters a room or a small microphone to create a relay point for a voice assistant. They're super easy to program since they still run basic Linux compared to other alternatives that are more efficient sure and some even cheaper but require you to access them via COM or learn much more machine close coding. Which puts up a massive hurdle for prototyping and playing around with the possibilities.
As for using old laptops that a big ehhh for me. Find yourself a used NUC instead. Much better form factor and the same power or even better. Though if they dont need to be visible then I really do prefer a small desktop, then it can have decent fans and hold hard drives. Everybody needs a NAS right? And building one yourself is easy and they make for excellent home servers too.
I've been testing some alternative SBCs like the OrangePi 5.
Currently mine is a fallback DNS server and reverse proxy for my network, trying to come up with some other uses for it.
They're still low power ARM boxes, but they're much cheaper than the RPi is at the moment.
In lieu of a better source I found this BuzzFeed News article with the Google search "Raspberry pi mastodon controversy". Though I admit I had no idea what op might be talking about until this moment. Some zingers by BF in there though:
She added, “I don’t think any of the people complaining here would not call the police if their house was burgled.” When BuzzFeed News pointed out that police don’t surveil burglars, Upton agreed that’s true.
Class.