this post was submitted on 23 Oct 2024
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[–] [email protected] 240 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (12 children)

Hopefully Qualcomm takes the hint and takes this opportunity to develop a high performance RISC V core. Don't just give the extortionists more money, break free and use an open standard. Instruction sets shouldn't even require licensing to begin with if APIs aren't copyrightable. Why is it OK to make your own implentation of any software API (see Oracle vs. Google on the Java API, Wine implementing the Windows API, etc) but not OK to do the same thing with an instruction set (which is just a hardware API). Why is writing an ARM or x86 emulator fine but not making your own chip? Why are FPGA emulator systems legal if instruction sets are protected? It makes no sense.

The other acceptable outcome here is a Qualcomm vs. ARM lawsuit that sets a precedence that instruction sets are not protected. If they want to copyright their own cores and sell the core design fine, but Qualcomm is making their own in house designs here.

[–] [email protected] 57 points 1 month ago (3 children)

takes this opportunity to develop a high performance RISC V core

They might. This would never be open sourced though. Best case scenario is the boost they would provide to the ISA as a whole by having a company as big as Qualcomm backing it.

[–] [email protected] 48 points 1 month ago

RISC V is just an open standard set of instructions and their encodings. It is not expected nor required for implementations of RISC V to be open sourced, but if they do make a RISC V chip they don't have to pay anyone to have that privilege and the chip will be compatible with other RISC V chips because it is an open and standardized instruction set. That's the point. Qualcomm pays ARM to make their own chip designs that implement the ARM instruction set, they aren't paying for off the shelf ARM designs like most ARM chip companies do.

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[–] [email protected] 25 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Simping for Qualcomm is definitely not a take i expected

[–] [email protected] 22 points 1 month ago (1 children)

In the mobile Linux scene, Qualcomm chips are some of the best supported ones. I don't love everything Qualcomm does, but the Snapdragon 845 makes for a great Linux phone and has open source drivers for most of the stack (little thanks to Qualcomm themselves).

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[–] [email protected] 168 points 1 month ago (3 children)
[–] [email protected] 156 points 1 month ago (11 children)

This will get RISC-V probably a big boost. Maybe this was not the smartest move for ARMs long term future. But slapping Qualcomm is always a good idea, its just such a shitty company.

[–] [email protected] 51 points 1 month ago (2 children)

True, I just wished RISCV laptops were slightly more developed and available. As of now, the specs aren't there yet in those devices that are available. (8core@2Ghz, but only 16GB Ram, too little for me)

Kind of a bummer, was coming up to a work laptop upgrade soon and was carefully watching the Linux support for Snapdragon X because I can't bring myself to deal with Apple shenanigans, but like the idea of performance and efficiency. The caution with which I approached it stems from my "I don't really believe a fucking thing Qualcomm Marketing says" mentality, and it seems holding off and watching was the right call. Oh well, x86 for another cycle, I guess.

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[–] [email protected] 34 points 1 month ago (2 children)

You are overestimating RISC-V. It cannot save the planet alone.

ARM provides complete chip designs.

RISC-V is more like an API, and then you still need to design your chips behind it.

[–] [email protected] 48 points 1 month ago (4 children)

I could be wrong, but I think Qualcomm designs its own chips and only licenses the "API", so it would be no difference for them.

[–] [email protected] 32 points 1 month ago

If they use Cortex cores, they are ARM designs. Oryon cores are in house based on Nuvia designs, and I assume it would still require a complete chip redesign if they decide to switch to RISC-V.

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[–] [email protected] 129 points 1 month ago (4 children)

A risky move... Or should I say... A RISCV move...

[–] [email protected] 28 points 1 month ago (4 children)

"risc architecture is gonna change everything"

[–] [email protected] 26 points 1 month ago (2 children)
[–] [email protected] 22 points 1 month ago

year of the linux riscv desktop

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[–] [email protected] 22 points 1 month ago (1 children)

It really did.

FYI, ARM stands for Advanced RISC Machines.

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[–] [email protected] 20 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (1 children)

It actually did, but not in a way people expected at the time that movie was made. It changed a lot underneath the hood.

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[–] [email protected] 98 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (1 children)

thanks, proprietary licenses.

can we finally move to open standards now or will these fucks keep on losing money just to spite foss? are they that afraid we read some of their source code?

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[–] [email protected] 89 points 1 month ago (2 children)
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[–] [email protected] 78 points 1 month ago (1 children)

The free market is going very well here

[–] [email protected] 33 points 1 month ago (62 children)

This is 100% capitalism. It's not free market to have a goverment-enforced monopoly.

[–] [email protected] 42 points 1 month ago (9 children)

This is textbook late stage free market ideals at work. This is how the free market always ends.

[–] [email protected] 26 points 1 month ago (7 children)

X - ~~The system is broken.~~

✅ - The system is working exactly as intended and must be destroyed.

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[–] [email protected] 76 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (1 children)

With the understanding that both of these are publicly traded multi-billion-dollar corporations and therefore neither should be trusted (albeit Arm Holdings has about 1/10 of the net assets), I feel like I distrust Arm less on this one than whatever Qualcomm is doing on their coke-fueled race to capitalize on the AI bubble.

[–] [email protected] 19 points 1 month ago (2 children)

What does trust have to do with anything? I mean, they seem to be arguing because Qualcomm bought a separate licensor and ARM argues that requires a contract renegotiation. This is the least take sides-y legal dispute in the history of legal disputes.

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[–] [email protected] 72 points 1 month ago (4 children)

Tech patents are ridiculous. Let's end them or reduce them to 1-3 years with no renewal. Then all that's left is the specific copyright to the technology, not lingering webs of patents that don't make any sense anyway to anyone with detailed knowledge of the tech. All they're good for is big companies using legal methods to stop innovation and competition. Tech moves too fast for long patents and is too complex for patent examiners or courts to understand what is really patentable. So it comes down to who has the most money for lawyers.

[–] [email protected] 36 points 1 month ago

Seeing things like "slide to unlock", "rounded corners", and "scroll bouncing" are all patentable is ridiculous.

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[–] [email protected] 69 points 1 month ago (1 children)
[–] [email protected] 37 points 1 month ago
[–] [email protected] 62 points 1 month ago (4 children)

This seems like a tactic that might win a battle but lose the war. Reminds me of Unity.

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[–] [email protected] 56 points 1 month ago (3 children)

And so the corporate wars have begun

[–] [email protected] 27 points 1 month ago (2 children)

I saw this documentary where taco bell won them.

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[–] [email protected] 53 points 1 month ago (3 children)

The amount of IP money grubbing in the IT industry is able to literally make millions out of sand, this is just more of it.

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[–] [email protected] 46 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Good. Qualcomm refuses to make it easy to run linux on their hardware. Instead they try to hide basic information about their processors and chips in the name of selling a license for every little thing.

[–] [email protected] 23 points 1 month ago (1 children)

And so is Arm, especially their Mali drivers.

While some go "um, ackchually, you don't need a GPU driver for your hobby project of using a cheap SBC to run emulators", it does affect usability a lot. Yeah, Arm also pointing at the licensors and so are licensors to Arm in this case, but it's still not good that the only SBCs with relatively good GPU drivers for Linux are made by Raspberry Pi, and in all other case, you either need to pirate the drivers (!), use the tool that allows regular Linux to use Android GPU drivers, or just use the framebuffer-only driver with heavy limitations.

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[–] Dudewitbow 45 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

Part of the reason why when people were saying they wanted competition to unseat x86, I didn't want it to be ARM based, because I knew 100% that ARM would jump in and do some shit to rake in more profit and negate all the potential cost savings to the consumer. As long as theres a single(or in the case of x86, essentially (but technically not) duopoly) that controls all the options for one of the options, then it's not a good form of competition.

[–] [email protected] 40 points 1 month ago (1 children)

We shall break into the desktop and laptop market! Let's start by severing ties with one of the most successful companies to do that so far.

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[–] JasonDJ 36 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (2 children)

I hope this isn't a cartoony scheme driven by Apple honeydicking Arm with the M-series processors to tank PC and Android.

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[–] [email protected] 35 points 1 month ago (2 children)
[–] [email protected] 20 points 1 month ago

Nailed it. They know they have a leading chip in these designs now, the market is expanding, and whatever licensing fee was negotiated in the past needs to be revisited.

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[–] [email protected] 35 points 1 month ago (4 children)

While every comment here seems to scream "end patents", arm has less patent bs than other tech (rounded corners) meant to sue/prevent use. Arm works hard on developing and improving architecture and designs to offer licenses at a compelling price. Qualcomm paying as much as other licensees should be preferable to Qualcomm than bankruptcy.

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[–] [email protected] 27 points 1 month ago (1 children)

I wonder if their recent bid to take over Intel, is related.

The irony would be very thik as Qualcomm played a big role in killing Intel's 2010er efforts to enter the mobile sector.

[–] [email protected] 30 points 1 month ago (5 children)

Qualcomm is not trying to take over Intel.

Not only has it been denied by both parties, it would 100% not go ahead. Additionally, it would invalidate the x86 cross-licence that AMD and Intel have, meaning Intel would no longer be able to make modern x86 CPUs. Frankly it's also somewhat doubtful Qualcomm wants to take Intel on.

The rumour was likely someone trying to pump up the stock and sell.

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