this post was submitted on 09 Nov 2024
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I was just reading this post https://old.reddit.com/r/selfhosted/comments/1gmv76n/is_reddit_going_to_remain_the_primary_space_for/ and many barely see the fediverse as an alternative and they seem to have a negative bias towards it. Super ironic when it comes to the self-hosting community. Yes, some instances are problematic, yes, some devs might have had problematic views. But it doesn't really matter when it's federated and FOSS. I think it's clear-cut that the selfhosting community on Lemmy is a perfect alternative to reddit. Why is there such a negative bias?

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[–] [email protected] 4 points 4 days ago (1 children)

Honestly, in my experience since I fully moved to Lemmy:

Almost any subreddit is more mature than any Lemmy channel.
This isn't just number of users (but that's a huge problem that has been mentioned here a lot), it means that the chance you'll run into a mod who is a tinpot despot is pretty high, and there is nothing you can do about it if you're not willing to sit alone in a ~~ghost town~~ alternate community.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 2 days ago (1 children)

there is nothing you can do about it

You can just post from a different lemmy instance.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 2 days ago

That doesn't remove the toxic mod.

How many alts and sock puppets do you think the average person should have? This doesn't sound healthy

[–] [email protected] 1 points 6 days ago

I'm pretty sure most just don't know about us or don't care

[–] [email protected] 92 points 1 week ago (4 children)

As someone who used to be vehemently anti-lemmy, it's a few different reasons.

  1. It's something new. Honestly is as simple as that. Most redditors are straight up threatened by new features, new looks, new anything. New Reddit is an example of that. To be fair it is hideous but it's also drastically underused according to reddits own metrics. This just stays consistently with everything. People prefer old subs to new, prefer old users to new, old memes to new. Why? Dunno. Could be as simple as just that they know it so it's comforting.

  2. The propaganda that reddit put up against Lemmy was pretty insane. The first few mini-migrations set people up with weird expectations and a lot of them bounced back to reddit with weird notions. Some of it was based on shitty admins or shitty servers (cough lemmy.ml cough) but other things seemed to be almost coordinated against Lemmy. By the time that the big migration from Reddit killing off third party apps/API use a lot of people had heard one or two things and just started spreading it. Redditors often don't source material and just kinda spread rumors or 'feelings' or upvote one idiot who seems like he knows what he's talking about while blatantly lying. This has never gone away. The same idiots keep whining and being dismissive.

  3. Redditors are hateful. Not purely hateful people or anything but the atmosphere encourages hate and division. I still browse reddit occasionally and I'll check the comments out about a post. It's always so bitter and angry, snapping out at one another. When every crab in the bucket is pulling you down, you get stuck in that habit too. Until you break free of reddit you don't realize just how bitter it's making you. Lemmy doesn't have those vibes and it can be really off putting to someone still in that bitterness. Kindness and people getting along almost comes off as stupid and naive so you just kinda dismiss the entirety of Lemmy as a whole.

  4. This is a conspiracy but I'm positive that Reddit admins are purging a lot of references to Lemmy that don't show the site in a positive light. When the API shit was happening people kept pointing out that certain communities that were supportive of Lemmy suddenly got locked behind a NSFW curtain that forced users to be logged in to read the community. A lot of people talked about how certain posts and stuff were being removed, especially ones critical of Spez. I don't think they stopped that campaign and I think they still try to demonize the hell out of Lemmy. Could be because China has a significant hand in reddit now or it could be because Spez has a tiny dick and a tinier ego. Dunno. But I think they're weighting the scales.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago) (1 children)
  1. […] certain communities that were supportive of Lemmy suddenly got locked behind a NSFW curtain […]

You got that wrong. That was a measure taken by these communities to demonetize reddit. Reddit doesn’t put ads on NSFW subs. Any profile that posts on an NSFW sub also gets their profile switched to NSFW afaik. Moderators got banned for these NSFW tags.

r/PixelDungeon is the only sub that I’m aware of that completely moved to lemmy. Withe the main mod and developer of the most popular fork moving to lemmy. The sub is still open, but it has a "bookmark" called "Lemmy" and a "link" called "Lemmy Community" that directly links to the lemmy community. The sub is still open and automod responded to any new post that the sub moved to lemmy … at least for a year or so, it doesn’t post that any more.

And there are some obvious down sides. To my knowledge lemmy has not implemented flairs or post tags, which get used excessively by some communities to categories and sort their content. [email protected] fell back to putting text tags into titles like "[DEV]" and "[OC]" and then use the search for this. But that is merely a work around. The sidebar links to these searches, but since instance-relative links are not a thing they are fixed links to lemmy.world.

The search itself is still inconvenient, because you can just "search this community". You always have to explicitly select a community to search it and have to enter the search term before selecting the community. Edit: that’s of course only true for the front-end (lemmy-ui) I use, dunno if all have that issue

I doubt regular end users will ever get warm with distributed federative networks. A lot of people already seem struggle with email. All tend to flock to a few big instances. For lemmy you also need some basic awareness of these systems. You can’t find everything and to expect that will always go wrong since you only search what your instance knows and never for everything. There are great projects like lemmyverse, but you need to know about them. People who don’t know about them will either just not find the communities they are looking for or they’ll start duplicate communities. The problem of not finding something is smaller on big instances but also more fatal, because their duplicate communities will displace the ones that were started on smaller instances but did not federate well yet.

And everything, the development and hosting, is solely carried on the shoulders of a few volunteers. That will always result in instances popping up and disappearing over time, with development speed varying depending on interest and free time the developers have.

The biggest selling point is not to replace reddit but to be connected with the rest of the activitypub fediverse. That you can see peertube channels as communities here. That mastodon users can comment on lemmy posts eggcetera

[–] [email protected] 2 points 4 days ago

No, I do not have it wrong.

There was a protest to mark things NSFW, correct, but what I'm talking about was something else. Kbin and Lemmy communities were marked in such a way that it was impossible to look at unless logged in. While logged in it wasn't marked as NSFW. It also wasn't a choice of the subreddit moderators. They were blocked by reddit admin themselves to force people to be logged in to see information on how to transfer to Lemmy.

[–] [email protected] 62 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

Reddit 100% was censoring and shadow banning any kbin or lemmy mentions.

I wouldn't even be surprised if reddit actively promoted or even creates negative comments. There was a precedent of people abandoning Digg so they were clearly very aware and afraid.

At the end of the day it's impossible to tell with these incredibly opaque networks. It's even hard to confirm comment visibility as Reddit employs data fudging and shadow banning.

Just another reminder that nothing any closed source social media says should be trusted, ever.

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[–] [email protected] 68 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (18 children)

Yes, some instances are problematic, yes, some devs might have had problematic views.

I mean that's basically the crux of it. That, and some moderation drama, and the software being very buggy a year ago giving people a bad first impression, and Lemmy still being susceptible to spam.

It'll take some time before Lemmy (and the Threadiverse as a whole) improves its reputation and moves on from the "it's a tankie website" take. That said, a lot of people in that thread are making the case for Lemmy, so it's mostly just people worried it's not as popular.

[–] [email protected] 45 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (9 children)

I definitely avoided Lemmy the first go-round with the API fuckery because it seemed from the outside like basically just a tankie protest Reddit in a similar way to how Voat was just a neo-Nazi protest Reddit. To the Lemmy devs' absolute credit, they don't push new users toward any of those, though.

I thought one day after having had a Mastodon for some time that I might not have given Lemmy a fair shake, so I went back and ended up finding that most instances are basically normal Reddit fare but honestly less shitty than Reddit proper (there's a trade-off that posts are less frequent and that small, niche communities can attract unwanted attention by having their posts almost immediately show up in 'all').

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[–] [email protected] 62 points 1 week ago (21 children)

Lemmy has a toxic puddle problem. If your first experience with Lemmy is sauntering into a community and getting chased out for not agreeing with someone hard enough, something like that, you'll probably just go back to Reddit and say 'that place is full of whack jobs'.

And the default sort, kinda hard to dodge

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[–] [email protected] 38 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Number 1 comment is

Reddit ain't going anywhere fast.

If r/selfhosted has to rely on reddit as it can't be fucked selfhosting, what chance do other subs have.

I have found Lemmy selfhosted communities excellent, they are not a large as Reddit but there are plenty knowledgeable people, often seflhosting their own little reddit.

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[–] [email protected] 28 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (8 children)

Devs are allegedly Marxist-Leninists.

Redditors dont understand that devs dont exactly have full control of open source software, that different instances are not operated by the devs.

Edit: Lemmy devs to be specific

[–] [email protected] 30 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (19 children)

I don't get the hate against the lemmy devs tbh, they have their (perhaps controversial) political views but they leave everyone that's not on their site alone and it feels like they develop lemmy pretty impartially

sure they might ban you off ml but that's their site and they get to do whatever they want with it, just like every other instance

i mean network effect is a thing i guess but that's not as important on lemmy where there are usually similarly large communities about generic things on most major instances

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[–] [email protected] 28 points 1 week ago

Alledgedly?

Marxist Leninst is a nice way to put it, they support Putin, Xi. Zhedong and Stalin.

Thankfully as you say, it’s FOSS with free federation and defederation. Admins only have control over lemmy.ml.

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