this post was submitted on 18 Nov 2024
69 points (94.8% liked)

Socialism

5194 readers
21 users here now

Rules TBD.

founded 5 years ago
MODERATORS
 

There is a well-known internet proverb, the bullshit assymetry principle:

"The amount of energy needed to refute bullshit is an order of magnitude bigger than that needed to produce it."

Anyone who has been in a few software chatrooms, a political communities, or any hobby groups has probably seen the eternal fountain of people asking really obvious questions, all the time, forever. No amount of patience and free time would allow a community to give quality answers by hand to each and every one of them, and gradually the originally-helpful people answering get sick of dealing with this constantly, then newcomers will often get treated with annoyance and hostility for their ignorant laziness. That's one way how communities get a reputation for being 'toxic' or 'elitist'. I've occasionally seen this first hand even on Lemmy, and obviously telling people to go away until they've figured out the answer themselves isn't a useful way to build a mass movement.

This is a reason why efficient communication matters.

Efficient teaching isn't a new idea, so we have plenty of techniques to draw from. One of the most famous texts in the world is a pamphlet, the Manifesto of the Communist Party, a way for the Communist League to share the idea of historical materialism to many thousands using a couple of dozen pages. Pamphlets and fliers are still used today at protests and rallies and for general promotion, and in the real world are often used as a resource when someone asks for a basic introduction to an ideology.

However, online, we have increased access to existing resources and linking people to information is easier than ever. I've seen some great examples of this on Lemmy with Dessalines often integrating pages of their FAQ/resources list into short to-the-point replies, and Cowbee linking their introductory reading list. So instead of burning out rewriting detailed replies to each and every beginner question from a propagandised liberal, or just banning/kicking people who don't even understand what they said wrong (propaganda is a hell of a drug), these users can pack a lot of information into their posts using effective links. Using existing resources counters the bullshit assymetry principle. There's a far lower risk of burnout and hostility when you can simply copy a bookmarked page, paste it, and write a short sentence to contextualize it. No 5 minute mini-essay in your reply to get the message across properly, finding sources each time, getting it nitpicked by trolls, and all that. Just link to an already-polished answer one click away!

There are many FAQ sites for different topics and ideological schools of thought (e.g. here's a well-designed anarchist FAQ I've been linked to years ago). There are also plenty of wikis, like ProleWiki and Leftypedia, which I think are seriously underused (I'm surprised Lemmygrad staff and users haven't built a culture of constantly linking common silly takes to their wiki's articles. What's the point of the wiki if it's not being used much by its host community?).

Notice that an FAQ is often able to link to specific common questions, and is very different from the classic "read this entire book" reply some of you may have seen before - unfortunately when a post says "how can value com from labor and not supply nd demand?", they're probably not in the mood to read Capital Vol. I-III to answer their question no matter how you ask them, but they might skim a wiki page on LTV and maybe then read further.

(Honestly, I think there's a missed opportunity for integrating information resources into ban messages and/or the global rules pages, because I guarantee more than half the people getting banned for sinophobia/xenophobia/orientalism sincerely don't think anything they said was racist or chauvanistic - it's often reiterating normal rhetoric and ""established facts"" in mass media; not a sign of reactionary attitude. The least we can do is give them a learning opportunity instead of simply pushing them further from the labour movement)

(page 2) 20 comments
sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[–] [email protected] 3 points 2 days ago (5 children)

I see a lot of reading lists with a link to a dead group chat that put the onus entirely on the reader to sort through the books. There need to be more reading guides that include some responses or recent articles about a book along with chapter questions so readers learn not to slog through a book without knowing whether they truly learned anything.

A pamphlet, even offline, should be a doorway into the hypertext world of the history of socialist praxis. It should mention a book or a website for those interested in the message to continue learning about what they just read, but there needs to be something there to actually receive them. For instance entry level well-cited history books that deconstruct imperialist history or "international relations" or neoliberal "economics". Helps back up a message. But websites and e documents are still not used to their full educational potential by much of the left.

I think ban messages should always cite and link to a rule, the banning interface should make that an easy task, letting you check off a few reasons, with an "Other: [text]” area. The ban message should contain the rule citations and a custom message. This would lead people to receive bans in a less arbitrary manner. Arbitrary bannings are likely to make people disregard rules entirely, in my experience.

There are plenty of ostensibly Marxist organizations that function as alt-media outlets and generic activist NGOs for liberal causes. There are few online spaces actually educating socialists rather than browbeating them. Best not to learn by example from contemporary activist organizations and online spaces frankly. Look at what works everywhere, not what exists, failing in the first world.

load more comments (5 replies)
[–] [email protected] 1 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Bookmarked to read tomorrow. Sidenote, anyone have a recommendation for a good copy of capital? I keep meaning to read it.

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] [email protected] -4 points 2 days ago (4 children)

First off and above ALL this movements need leaders. Something we thought we were owning the neolibs by not having but Occupy/ArabSpring/BLM proved otherwise. We need leaders they can negotiate with (this is why Israel took out all the Hamas negotiators to preclude peace). Our FIRST order of business is selecting leaders. Organization inherently rots or builds or dies from the head. Grammscian organic intellectuals will fall in line below that, but we need A leader with real charisma and concrete but lofty vision.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (18 children)

Idk enough about Occupy & ArabSpring, but BLM seems like a terrible example of having leaders being a good thing

Edit: I'm an anarchist though, so I understand I'm a bit out of place here and may have different goals/motivations/priorities that influence my perspective on this

[–] [email protected] -1 points 1 day ago (1 children)

You have to have leaders and then do everything in your power to not let them succumb to vanguardism.

I also lean more in to an anarchist style of leadership, but decing everything by quorum can paralyze movements or leave them without a clear message.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (20 children)

What do you mean when you say "you have to have leaders" but in the same breath say "not let them succumb to vanguardism?" The Vanguard is the most advanced of the working class helping to organize and lead social change with the direct participation and consent of the masses, which part of that do you take issue with?

I understand that you have Anarchist sympathies, I myself was once an Anarchist, but I don't really see what you're trying to criticize here. What about "vanguardism" should be opposed if you also believe in leaders?

This sounds like a case of just fearing the associations with vanguardism and not with the structure and practical aspects themselves, which ultimately is a problem of aesthetics and not material reality. I could be wrong, which is why I'm asking.

[–] [email protected] -2 points 1 day ago (1 children)

"The Vanguard" as you describe it was an ideological justification to describe any and all criticism of the ruling class (and yes, to me, the upper echelons of the USSR were a ruling class) as counterrevolutionary. "The most advanced of the working class" shredded the countries military leader shit on the eve of the second world war not because of existing coups, but out of paranoia. "The vanguard" in the end served only to preserve their own interests.

"The people elected SRs or did not vote majority Bolshevik? What do they know, we are the vanguard, we know whats best, lets ignore the elections and abolish the soviets."

Thats why i dislike the concept of the Vanguard. Because never turned out the way it was promised and it never will.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 day ago (2 children)

There are a few issues here. First, the upper-level government employees in the USSR did not constitute a "class," that's a misframing of class analysis that you didn't justify. Secondly, a Vanguard is not an ideological justification for any actions by the Vanguard, I have no idea where you are getting that idea from but it certainly isn't Marxists. Thirdly, the SRs had a split right before the election and the information was not given to the public before the election in adequate numbers, and even then this was in the much less popular Provisional Government, and not in the more popular Soviet Government, the "Dual Power" that the Workers supported far more than the liberal Provisional Government, you are just arguing against popular revolution if the Bourgeoisie opposes it at this point.

I think you should read Blackshirts and Reds | Audiobook. Marxist States have turned out how they were promised, not as the mythical "pure" Socialism untainted by reality, but as actually existing Socialist states.

load more comments (2 replies)
load more comments (19 replies)
load more comments (17 replies)
load more comments (3 replies)
load more comments
view more: ‹ prev next ›