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Soulslike - Discussion, News, Memes

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This is a community for discussion, news, and memes pertaining to the video game sub-genre "soulslike".

Given Lemmy's size, the definition of soulslike may be treated relatively loosely. While games like the numerous FromSoft titles, the recent Star Wars Jedi games, Lies of P, Nioh and similar games should be the focus, games that incorporate soulslike elements - like Hollow Knight and Blasphemous, for example - may also be discussed here.

Basic Lemmy-quette applies. Additionally, since flairs don't exist yet, please do make sure to include a marker to denote what game your post is about in square brackets for clarity's sake. An example could be:

[BB] This enemy is so difficult!

[DS1] Anyone struggling with the gargoyles?

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[DS] Pinwheel Lore (lemmy.zip)

submitted 3 days ago by v4ld1z to c/soulslike

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What's your favourite boss lore?

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[–] [email protected] 5 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (1 children)

The Dancer of The Boreal Valley from DS3 will always hold a special place in my heart, more for the fight itself.

The Dancer's lore is tragic, but relatively brief. She, once a maiden of Gwynevere, was turned by the Pontiff into a relatively mindless monster and defender, although it can be argued that she may have preserved a bit of herself through the greater context of her presence within the game.

However, as stated, the fight against her is even dearer to me. It really does feel like a tantalising dance of sorts, with both partners forcefully alternating the lead, lunging and retreating over and over again, like two forlorn lovers. She is beautifully animated, so much so that I've let her kill me plenty of times just so I could focus on admiring her moveset, her fluidity, her forcefulness. You can feel you're up against a being of immense strength but also blessed with radiant gracefulness. And the backing track is perfect!

The fight against The Dancer is up there with the Cyberdemon waltz from DOOM* 2016 for me in terms of "knowing someone through combat," it's just artfully expressive if you have the patience to allow it to unfold and evolve.

[–] v4ld1z 4 points 3 days ago (2 children)

Well put. Haven't personally gotten to her yet but from what I've seen in videos, the fight looks really good. Thanks for sharing!

Interesting to hear people enjoying DOOM boss fights. I've not enjoyed a single one of them, to my knowledge, apart from the Marauder if you want to call it a boss fight. The ideas are cool in a vacuum, but the gameplay is not something I really want or appreciate about DOOM games

[–] [email protected] 4 points 3 days ago (1 children)

You can get to her as the first boss in the game.

[–] v4ld1z 3 points 3 days ago (1 children)

Dancer? Really? I thought Vordt is the first main boss

[–] [email protected] 4 points 3 days ago (1 children)

Yes, that's the intended first boss that is obvious. You can instead go the other way, where the old lady is sitting that gives you the banner. Kill her, she drops a quest item for later, and the dancer spawns. She is most often than not too high level for most people to confront that early, but some people do it for the added challenge. You get a single endgame location early for it, but cannot progress through archives since the door is locked and you need a key you get by following the "normal" path.

The lore is both Vordt and Dancer were changed into monsters to guard people "spawning" on high wall of lothric from progressing further. She guards one path, Vordt guards the other.

[–] v4ld1z 3 points 3 days ago (1 children)

Holy shit, that's awesome. Can I still do that if I've progressed to the forest?

[–] [email protected] 4 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (1 children)

You can always do it as long as the grandma is alive. Just revisit it and kill her. Technically when you go in for the actual dancer fight, the grandma is dead, and picking up the quest item triggers the fight. So by killing her you just accelerate it a little bit

[–] v4ld1z 3 points 3 days ago

Gotcha. Thanks for the intel!

[–] [email protected] 4 points 3 days ago (1 children)

Totally understand your stance on DOOM, it's honestly why 2016 is my favourite of the bunch - precisely because it doesn't much conform to what DOOM was and became again.

[–] v4ld1z 2 points 3 days ago (1 children)

Is Eternal more similar to oldschool DOOM? I was under the impression that 2016 is similar to the OGs and that Eternal's departure from that direction is what made it so controversial.

To me, Eternal feels like all the good stuff from 2016 but cranked to 11: the soundtrack is bangin, the gunplay feels weight, snappy, responsive, the "parkour" elements implemented in the arenas made the game feel really dynamic and fast-paced. All around just a really solid successor.

What do you think?

[–] [email protected] 3 points 3 days ago (1 children)

To me, yeah, Eternal feels like they upgraded the ethos of old-school DOOM with contemporary mechanics. They both feel like bullet hell games, in a way.

2016, on the other hand, felt more like Titanfall 2, to be honest, an adventure FPS with hardcore mechanics, and narrative gameplay (feels like it tells more of a story through the context, combat and environment than Eternal does - Eternal feels more like themed arenas to me, just like the originals).

Which is why I can't bring myself to finish Eternal!:)) I've played through about 75% of the Campaign and I always try to find as many secrets as possible, but I just don't feel the pull to go through with it... Every time I try, it just makes me wanna reinstall 2016.

[–] v4ld1z 3 points 3 days ago (1 children)

That's so interesting! It shows that people do value very different things for the same experiences - that's awesome. I value story-telling a lot and enjoy environmental story-telling too - duh, check the community - but DOOM 2016 felt a little too cryptic to me at times. Maybe it's to do with me not having been into this narrative style yet back when I played the game but it felt like the game dragged on too long. I hindsight, I probably would enjoy the game's narrative a little more today. But the gameplay just feels so slow compared to Eternal's if that makes sense. It's a different style of gameplay in a way though, so that's fine.

I had the same experience with Eternal, sorta, in that I couldn't make myself finish the game, the only reason being is that I get bored of games a little too quickly for my taste. I think I was missing like 3 levels or so and wanted to move on to the DLC but put it off for ages. Finally got around to it again, enjoyed the couple remaining levels and got the wind blown out of my sails with the final boss of the game. Actually had to turn the difficulty down because the fight was so frustrating to me lol. And didn't get to play the DLC either despite owning it.

Will you be checking out the upcoming DOOM game? What's it called, The Dark Ages, or something?

[–] [email protected] 3 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (1 children)

Yepyep, I get what you mean by slower pace, and I agree! 2016 felt like a rhythm game, whereas Eternal gets very frantic. Dunno, maybe that's why I love it, it also synchronises really well with the soundtrack, so the entire game feels like tech-stepping your way through a demon mosh pit, if it makes sense. It's also not as difficult once you get into the rhythm of things, and the missing extra movement mechanics they've added in Eternal do slow it down even more. But I'm coming at it more as an Unreal Tournament 2004 player than a DOOM player.

You may also be right about enjoying 2016 more now, it has sooo many subtle elements strewn across the maps, almost like exploring the game more than I do killing the demons!

Oooh, yes, it is an unexpectedly difficult game at the worst of times! Feels overtuned waaay too often (which is another element 2016 gets better, imo, as it's a bit more flexible in how it allows you to approach a combat situation), even down to jump distances - there have been many ledges I failed to reach because I didn't wait for the very last millimetre of ground before pressing Space.

And you've hit the nail on the head, winded! That's exactly how I felt by the time I stopped playing, winded. Played it through on Medium/Normal/whatever because it's one of my fixations, but it sure was a slog at times...

Now that I think about it, I also like DS2 more than 1 or 3 for many of the same reasons, so it may just be me:))

Edit because I forgot: I didn't even know they were planning on making another one! I'll probably check it out, but Eternal taught me to manage my expectations, unfortunately...

[–] v4ld1z 3 points 3 days ago (1 children)

Never played UT since I didn't grow up with it. First FPS experiences I've had were CS 1. 6 that I watched my older brother play, Turok, Star Wars Battlefront, that kinda stuff. Must feel cool to have a game somewhat similar in style then?

You take the good with the bad, I guess. Most of the time, traversal and jump'n'run sections work quite well, especially in combat. Some platforming sections felt a little off, tho, true.

So you're a contrarian then :P Can't comment on DS2 since I haven't played it at all but from what I've heard, some people enjoy it the most because it had the freshest ideas of them all and felt like a good continuation of DS1. DS3, while great and regarded as the second best I'd wager, fails a little when it comes to the story and lore - kinda like DS1,5. Again, just paraphrasing what I've heard - haven't finished any DS myself.

Cautious optimism :D I'll see if I'll pick the game up for cheap some time after release. Not in a hurry

[–] [email protected] 2 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (1 children)

Those are all good titles in and of themselves, and Turok came closest to UT in terms of combat feel, if I remember correctly:-? It does feel nice, not gonna lie! Especially since reflex shooters seem to have diminished in popularity. Luckily, though, UT2004 still thoroughly stands up as a deathmatch machine, so at least there's that!:))

Don't get me wrong, I did appreciate the increase in complexity in terms of verticality, traversal, combat, everything! I just think they didn't have to be so... mean with the implementations?:))

Nah, more like very specific:))) DS2 is to DS1 and 3 as Silent Hill 2 is to Silent Hill 1 and 3, as I see it. It's a more intimate story, even down to the stakes. I liked that "we're just out to look for a cure" theme, it simultaneously made the goal more relatable, but it also eased the pressure of having the world's fate on our shoulders. And it's far more melancholic than the other two, as well! DS3 has some places where it achieves that atmosphere, but otherwise they're unique to DS2. And I enjoyed the new mechanics, too! It's the only one in which I truly feel comfortable not using a shield and engaging groups, other than Elden Ring.

And just to give you more reason to call me a contrarian, I guess, I prefer DS3 over DS1. Sure, I miss the intertwined level designs from the first, but the characters are more complex in their portrayals, I found, the themes it covers fit well in terms of "this is the last one, let us do something else now," the mechanics are far more refined, the combat is more fluid... If someone were to remake DS2 with DS3's mechanical refinement, that would be a perfect game for me!

True, that seems to be the best choice either way, given how positively broken most games are at launch nowadays...

[–] v4ld1z 2 points 3 days ago (1 children)

I'll see if I give 2016 another go :) Have quite a huge backlog :x

I totally get what you mean :D

Oh yea, I feel you. It does sound right up my alley since I feel like most media these days goes for bigger, better, more grand storylines and just loses itself in the weeds. For example, Stranger Things 1 was a very confined story, limited to the scope of the town, the protagonists and a single unknown entity that was unnatural and unexplainable. By the end of series, so far it least, we've got five different storylines at the same, a cast of like 20 people all with varying degrees of importance to the overall plot, and suuuper high stakes. It sounds like DS2 is more like ST1 then, in a sense? I don't know if that comparison makes sense :D

I think if I got around to playing the games, I'd dig DS3 more than DS1 too. I appreciate DS1 for its significance for the genre and trailblazing, but so much of the game feels really dated. Bloodborne was my first soulslike and DS3, at least what I've played so far, didn't feel too far away from that. Now DS2.3, that'd be something :D

I don't think the game will be that expensive too further down the line. I think I snatched Eternal for like 20€ a couple years ago

[–] [email protected] 1 points 3 days ago (1 children)

Ooh, yeah, the pile is huge!:)))

Essentially, yes, somewhere thereabouts! You have around the same amount of secondary "friendly" characters (and it does the whole hub area waaay better than DS3, imho, it's much more organic and beautiful) as the other games and the world is really huge and metaphorical, but it's personal quests all the way down. All of the heroes of myth you meet are either stuck, or crestfallen. The others either want to become better salespersons, reunite with family, seek fortune, or are just bored and want to see this thing unfold for lack of something better to do (this is a personal observation, but I'm 100% certain that's one of the secondary characters' main deal, which is why she's my favourite❤️). The whole world is permeated by a thick languor reflected in many of the bosses, too! One of them is the best "remix" of Sisyphus I've ever seen in a video game!

Oh, yep, then DS3 would most certainly be more your speed. And a DS2 Remake/Update is in the pipeline, I'm sure of it:)) Same must be coming for DS3, too, at one point.

Have you tried Elden Ring at all? It's not as fast as Bloodborne, although it's faster than Dark Souls 3 in terms of zippiness in combat. Also significantly increased mobility due to the whole open world thing. Worth it even just for the exploration, it's a world thick with meaning! And, yes, Malenia is everything they say she is, in case you haven't learnt that yourself yet:)))

[–] v4ld1z 2 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (1 children)

Man, you're selling it well. Almost feel like I should just skip DS1 and DS3 and go for 2 immediately. I just know the Majula theme and I'm kinda sold already :D

DS3 remaster seems to be on the horizon already. DS2 would be the only one missing then

Yup, almost finished. Can't get myself to slug through Radagon + Elden Beast, haven't bought the DLC yet. Kinda burnt out on the game because the open world, while very pretty and easily one of the best ones out there, is just kind of annoying to navigate at some point. Just so much filler and "unnecessary" forced exploration. I like tight, focused experiences more like all prior FS games. My top three are Sekiro, Lies of P and Bloodborne, in that order, for reference. ER is just a tad too big for my taste. It's still an amazing game and an open-world game done right, but it doesn't lend itself to repeat playthrough that well, I feel like

And yea, Malenia is pain. Haven't defeated her and probably won't. She's like Isshin-level difficult but you have the tools of a random NPC brute (joking obviously but kinda feels like it)

[–] [email protected] 2 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (1 children)

I used to idle for literally hours in Majula just listening to the theme and the sounds of distant waves crashing. Once it fills up a bit, you can hear small signs of life, like the blacksmith muttering something to himself, another NPC humming something very softly, it's lovely! And if I'm selling it, means I'm doing right by the game, I really do believe it's an underappreciated classic. And even without the remake, it still holds up very well! It quickened the pace of combat and made a lot more tactics viable, the results of those experiments can be felt throughout the later installments. Completely worth the playthrough, and it took me about 60 hours (not 100%) my first time around, when skill issues were a legitimate problem:)) They still are, but I'd wager a "close enough" completionist run would take about 60-70-ish hours considering you're fresh off of ER. And it's well worth taking your time with that one.

Oh, I think you may be a bit further along than I am, I'm at Malenia, but in the middle of taking another break from the game:)) I played it exclusively for 180 hours, then I stopped a couple of years ago. Got burnt out as well, and the bosses started turning into spammers and sponges, so I needed to stop. I do come back to it every now and again, though, it just feels really nice to explore the world and idle in Moonwaifu's tower:)) Gathering my courage to finally finish it, though.

If I may, you've mentioned you prefer tighter experiences, in which case I strongly suggest you consider trying out Armored Core VI: Fires of Rubicon, too. It's a sortie-based game, takes around 20-30 hours, but it's so FromSoft, it's ridiculous! The "true" ending can only be achieved after at least three playthroughs, each of which change the narrative in very significant ways, and exist somehow parallel, yet intertwined with each other. It's great, it's philosophical, it's surprisingly and endearingly heartfelt, and the combat is Bloodborne on crack, with big guns, flying robots, ridiculous amounts of missiles, and really cool environments! I consider it to be well within the Soulsborne area, even though it doesn't cover all of the standard elements.

[–] v4ld1z 2 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Okay yea, I'm sold. I think I've already instead the game some time ago - I'll give it a shot!

I get you. It's not that I dislike ER - it's a really good game as I've admited before. I just can't keep playing a single for such a long stretch of time if I don't feel like I'm doing progress if that makes sense? The last open-world game I've spent such a long time playing was Dragon's Dogma 2 which arguably doesn't have a good story at all but the gameplay felt very different to me compared to other open worlds. Sorta like Monster Hunter but a little more free. I'll eventually get around to finishing ER too. My SO is adamant we buy and play the DLC - she's way more excited for it than I am. :D

Okay, I'll give it a go. I've seen gameplay and assumed it's way less a soulslike and rather a third-person action adventure style arena brawler (?). I have a jailbroken PS4, so I'll see if I can find a download to give it a try. Maybe it's actually up my alley. Thanks for the recommendation!

[–] [email protected] 2 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (2 children)

Yes! Always nice to know DS2's getting some love, hope it'll be a pleasant surprise!

Yep, totally get it, I was actually surprised it held my attention for that long! Fallout New Vegas is the only other game which made me want to break the 100-hour mark without switching to a different game for breaks, which is why ER earned my respect (even though Malenia can go bother someone else...).

I keep hearing good things about both DD and MH, maybe I should give them a try:-?

It's a surprise Soulslike, yeah!:))) Wasn't expecting it when I bought the game (hell, I didn't even know AC6 was coming out until a week before release), then it promptly proceeded to whoop my ass with the first boss:)) That's when I knew I was home!:))) Again, it's missing some of the standard elements, like the open world, traversal, etc., as it's mission-based, but they somehow figured out a way to include a semblance of those missing elements through how you unlock missions, gear, story elements, etc.

[–] v4ld1z 2 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Addendum: I'll look for a download for AC for sure. You're good at selling games, I feel like :D

[–] [email protected] 1 points 2 days ago

Enjoy the potential rabbit hole, the customisation and build options are insane!:)))

Thanks, but really can't take credit for this, it's all on the games themselves!:D I mean, we all know "you gotta give it some time before it clicks" is a real thing with pretty much all FromSoft games, they're not really contemporary reviewer friendly:))

[–] v4ld1z 2 points 2 days ago (1 children)

They're two very different game series. Coming from MH, it's not so different from soulslikes in the sense that you have a dodge roll, fight one big enemy at a time over a longer period of time, need to look out for your positioning, have numerous different weapon types to choose from that lead to vastly different gameplay etc. In essence, it's a different kinda game tho. You grind for resources, craft new weapons and armour made from said resources that that the monsters you hunt drop on quests and upon carving them, and need to grind a lot to get the resources you need for crafting and upgrades. The story is usually not that good - except for a couple standouts like Monster Hunter 4 Ultimate for the 3DS - and not the focus of the games.

Where the game shines is the multiplayer. You can hunt with up to three other players which makes for really chaotic but cool hunts. Everyone will have a different weapon, different armours and weapons they want to grind for, so you keep switching up the monsters you hunt, progress through hunter ranks to hunt stronger and cooler monsters... It's a really good game series, long story short.

If you're interested in giving the games a shot, I recommend either Monster Hunter World or Monster Hunter Rise. I personally am not a huge fan of either simply because I feel like they've "casualised" the gameplay a tad too much (don't get me wrong - I'm really grateful for what Capcom has done with the two games for the series' exposure and popularity but I just prefer the more oldschool, traditional games) but either is a good starting point. World is a little more grounded and has a super nice look. With its expansion Iceborne, it's probably the biggest MH game to date, spanning almost 10 years of content released for the game. Rise is more of a return to its whacky Japanese roots and has found a lot of fans too. It's a very sensible continuation of World and has a lot of cool unique mechanics that have never been seen like this: riding a dog into battle like a mount (Palamute), running and climbing up walls and mountains, a so-called "wire-bug" that allows for numerous additional special attacks and added mobility in combat and out of combat etc etc etc.

Long story short, get either World or Rise - doesn't matter - and you'll be golden for a long time. Their respective DLC's, Iceborne and Sunbreak, offer even more really good, difficult, high-level gameplay. Do see if you can find someone to play them with, however, since it's way more fun with friends. Even a single other person to play with elevates the experience a lot. Also don't shy away from online multiplayer as the online community is usually really kind, helpful, and accepting of new players.

About DD: I've only played 2 without any knowledge of the prior games and had a lot of fun. It's an open-world game with gameplay similar to Monster Hunter (go figure, they're both made by Capcom) that is set in a fantasy setting, so spells are on the table too for example, and a really beautiful landscape to explore. The story was really not that great, sadly, and is apparently a step-down from prior installments. However, the gameplay more than makes up for it:

You have different vocations, similar to jobs in FF for example, with their own different sets of weapons, armours, and skills at their disposal. You can switch between vocations really easily by speaking to the vocation guild master in town and can grind XP for their respective progress bars to unlock new skills. The exploration is really nice and always offers something cool to find - usually treasure or a side-quest.

The biggest draw of the game is definitely the pawn system, tho. You create your personal follower during character creation that tags along, helps with fights, has dynamic and adaptive dialogue. The coolest thing is that every other players also has a pawn - which you can hire through a pawn hire system. What that means is that you can have up to two more pawns in your party that are completely unique and made by other players. When your pawn is hired by other players, you get rewards for their work, like money or materials, and it's just a really cool idea that doesn't exist in any other franchise.

I've had enough fun with the game during two playthroughs (like 100h combined where 80h were spent on the first one). The gameplay and the vocations offer enough variety to last you easily that much.

Okay, sorry for the wall of text. I hope my ramblings make sense because I don't wanna proof-read it :D Hope I could help you somewhat!

[–] [email protected] 1 points 2 days ago (1 children)

No apologies, my brain loves text:)))

Thanks for the detailed layout, you've sold me on both! They sound like the right balance between action and management, love me some maths in between bashing skulls! Eh, maybe I can start building a social life at 40, I still have time=)))

[–] v4ld1z 2 points 2 days ago

Who needs a social life when one can have vidya 👀