this post was submitted on 23 Dec 2024
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Interesting Global News

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The man accused of gunning down a health insurance executive in a brazen hit in New York that sparked fierce debate about the industry pleaded not guilty Monday to state charges including "terrorist" murder.

Monday's hearing came after Mangione, 26, appeared in a New York court last week to face federal charges also including murder following his dramatic extradition by plane and helicopter from Pennsylvania, where he was arrested at a McDonald's restaurant. The suspect is charged in both state and federal court in the December 4 shooting of UnitedHealthcare chief executive Brian Thompson.

People demonstrating against the industry gathered outside court Monday brandishing banners reading "free Luigi" and "innocent until proven guilty."

If convicted in the state case, Mangione could face life imprisonment with no parole. In the federal case, he could technically face the death penalty.

Mangioni's attorney Karen Friedman Agnifilo has previously sought clarity on how simultaneous federal and state charges would work, calling the situation "highly unusual."

Agnifilo raised concerns on Monday that Mangione could not receive a fair trial, and questioned why New York mayor Eric Adams had been present when Mangione was brought off a police helicopter at a Manhattan helipad last week. Aginifilo told local media Monday that officials "are treating him like he is like some sort of political fodder." She said the sight of Mangione flanked by rifle-wielding tactical officers during the final stage of his extradition that was widely broadcast was "utterly political."

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[–] [email protected] 20 points 6 hours ago (1 children)

Keeping in mind a terrotist charge should be something like 911. Not killing one man.

Remember what happened to oyher shooters that attacked the public.

[–] [email protected] 15 points 4 hours ago* (last edited 3 hours ago)

Remember how Rapist Brock Turner raped a girl, there were two witnesses, and the judge "didn't want to ruin an athletes life?"

It's fucking dystopic how our legal system picks and chooses who to apply the law to. Rape a not wealthy person? Get out of jail free. Kill an inarguably evil CEO? Terrorist! get the death penalty.

I personally feel more terrorized by rapists like Brock Turner being free in the world than by Luigi's actions.

[–] [email protected] 22 points 9 hours ago

They made it easy for him to plead not guilty, given all the charges they were trying to topple on top of him.

[–] [email protected] 29 points 10 hours ago (1 children)

Highly unusual is an understatement. It's either cruel and unusual punishment, or it's double jeopardy. He's being tried twice for the same crime.

[–] [email protected] 13 points 8 hours ago

I support him, but you can be tried at the state and federal level for the same crime. You can’t be charged twice for the same crime at the same level.

[–] [email protected] 78 points 15 hours ago (5 children)

The way they so desperately want to make an example out of him is going to give Luigi's lawyer plenty of ammo.

Making it a terrorism charge significantly raises the bar to get a guilty verdict even if Luigi admits to the killing.

Trying for the death penalty I think requires every member of the jury to agree on a guilty verdict instead of a majority (IANAL)

And every time they do this shit it just highlights the injustice between the classes because of course people are going to compare it to the treatment of mass shooters:
A dozen police officers to escort him vs 2 for a serial killer.
Terrorism charges and risk of the death penalty
Super special emergency line for CEOs because 911 isn't good enough for them.

Maybe a couple more assassinations of CEOs and the only country where this repeatedly happens will finally start looking into ways to prevent this.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 5 hours ago

It's pretty standard to charge with the most serious things they can and potentially drop/lower the charges before trial. Maybe theyre trying to get a plea deal or disposition and avoid the trial - 'we'll drop terrorism and the death penalty if you plead to first degree murder and life without' or something like that

Or at least they have his legal team spending time knocking down the more superfluous charges instead of dealing with the meat of it all

Obviously I don't know enough about the situation here to know exactly what's up, but yeah

[–] [email protected] 7 points 7 hours ago (2 children)

Even if the politics doesn't change, enough CEOs getting cast into Hell sure might do the trick. People say that it won't change how companies operate, but I disagree. First, changing CEOs isn't easy for a company. The sudden loss of one is disruptive, and it means they can't implement whatever plans they had for the company. A company with repeated CEO murders is one that will be thrown into chaos. Second, regardless of what shareholders might want, CEOs have to consider their own interests. Even a $10 million salary doesn't mean much if you're dead before you can enjoy it.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 4 hours ago* (last edited 4 hours ago)

The share value of UHC fell hard after the murder. That is the thing that really makes waves. As you say, losing CEO is costly, to investors and owners, which in the end is what matters most to the owner classes.

(edit typo)

[–] [email protected] 6 points 6 hours ago

Third: the next day people were getting approved for procedures they were being denied the day before. This was across all insurance companies. It literally changed how these companies operate (at least in the short term) and likely saved lives.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 10 hours ago* (last edited 10 hours ago)

Maybe a couple more assassinations of CEOs and the only country where this repeatedly happens will finally start looking into ways to prevent this.

Billionaires. The CEOs are still lapdogs. We must make the "invincible dragons" realize that they are vulnerable.

It will take the assassination of a few billionaires for this country to change those laws.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 10 hours ago (1 children)

Super special emergency line for CEOs because 911 isn't good enough for them.

Is this a thing?

[–] [email protected] 8 points 10 hours ago* (last edited 10 hours ago) (1 children)
[–] [email protected] 6 points 9 hours ago* (last edited 9 hours ago)

Which is ridiculous and more intended as a warning to the public given that the establishments that provide their bodyguards already have these sort of "hotlines" into law enforcement. They are just that afraid.

[–] [email protected] 25 points 14 hours ago (2 children)

I'm pretty sure most (if not all) juries have to be unanimous to reach a verdict of any kind.

[–] [email protected] 18 points 14 hours ago

For criminal cases yes it has to be unanimous. They might have heard about civil cases sometimes allowing majority/supermajority vote verdicts (allowed in more than half the states).

[–] [email protected] 107 points 16 hours ago (9 children)

I've never seen the government work so fast as they are with this guy. There's people in jail that have been waiting months for a trial.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 8 hours ago

Fucking trump and his followers staged a fucking insurrection and it took four years and the charges essentially thrown out when he won this election. They want this guy memory holed ASAP because he has genuine public support and the elites are terrified we vastly outnumber them and we’re well armed. Trump likes to say he can shoot someone in the middle of fifth avenue and get away with it, and figuratively so far he has. Let’s see what Luigi can get away with. The trumped up charges are in his favor IMO. Too high of a standard to meet.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 9 hours ago* (last edited 9 hours ago)

Arraignments are generally rather quick. Even for low profile crimes, they will normally arraign a defendant within a week of arrest or charges being filed. They really try to do it much faster with misdemeanors, normally the next business day. Arraignments are quick and easy, trials take years if the defendant doesn't take the plea deal.

An arraignment is literally a statement of the charges against the defendant. The defendant then pleads guilty or not guilty.

If they enter a guilty plea, then sentencing will normally occur immediately based on the plea bargain offered by the prosecution, or rather quickly, if no plea bargain was offered.

If they enter a not guilty plea, the prosecution sets up a date for a trial, and generally offers a plea bargain that may involve any number of incentives. 95% of cases take the plea bargain.

If it finally gets to trial, that can be years later because of the sheer overload of the system, though high noteriety cases like this one, and the OJ trial, tend to move a bit faster.

[–] [email protected] 40 points 16 hours ago

Should have been running for president during his crimes.

[–] [email protected] 12 points 15 hours ago* (last edited 8 hours ago) (1 children)

This is a ~~deposition~~. Arraignment.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 9 hours ago (1 children)

It's an arraignment, but you're in the right ballpark.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 8 hours ago
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[–] [email protected] 39 points 15 hours ago

Terrorist charges?

Rich people justice.

[–] [email protected] 147 points 20 hours ago (7 children)

terrorist murder

If anything, this further shows we are living in two tiered justice system

[–] [email protected] 5 points 7 hours ago

In Ye Olden days, there used to be formally separated court systems, one for nobility and one for commoners. Turns out, they just got a lot better at hiding this system.

[–] JasonDJ 64 points 16 hours ago (2 children)

If anything, Luigi murdered a terrorist.

[–] [email protected] 17 points 13 hours ago (1 children)

Naw, the health insurance CEO (I refuse to call it healthcare, because it isn't that) didn't kill people as a political act. He only did it to line his wallet.

[–] [email protected] 17 points 13 hours ago (1 children)
[–] [email protected] 4 points 3 hours ago* (last edited 3 hours ago)

Yes that exactly what the professional executive class are, mercenaries for capital (though it cant be mixed up with them also being owners as well as just ridiculously paid frontmen).

[–] [email protected] 32 points 16 hours ago (1 children)

A terrorist is someone who enacts violence against civilians in order to create political change. Not saying Luigi deserves any of this, but if his goal was to make a point to the world about the mistreatment of patients at the hands of insurance companies in order to push change, then the terrorism charge is accurate.

What insurance companies do is far worse than terrorism. They harvest the sick, elderly, and injured for their money in order to sate the capitalist urge to increase revenue for the investors. But that isn't illegal.

[–] [email protected] 27 points 15 hours ago

It's a straight up cyberpunk dystopia. Corporations run the world, they provide all the means of being able to survive, and disagreement with it is a crime.

They don't even care about the people inside the corporations themselves, because they're replaceable. It's all functioning to generate wealth for the owners of society.

Fuck, the reason I both loved and hated Cyberpunk: Edgerunners is because it was too real at the beginning.

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[–] [email protected] 104 points 20 hours ago* (last edited 20 hours ago) (8 children)

Literally standard procedure for a criminal trial. I absolutely hate it.

It's predicated on "never admit guilt, so we can wheel and deal in backrooms to make a plea deal." They say plea deals are to keep courts from being packed and backed up, but it's more about punishing the poorest who have no money to fight when they're innocent.

Almost everyone always starts with a plea of Not Guilty. No matter how fuckin guilty they are or not. You could be the guiltiest motherfucker on the planet, and you'll still have your lawyer tell you to plea Not Guilty.

[–] [email protected] 62 points 20 hours ago (2 children)

The point in this one is to convince a jury that he's not guilty of the exact charges. His lawyers will surely go the "not terrorism" route, but unfortunately he has other charges. I think the legal term is "stacking"?

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[–] [email protected] 68 points 21 hours ago (2 children)

Great, his innocent. Now let's give him back his gun and let him go. Somewhere near Elon Musk, maybe?

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