How does this compare with matrix?
this post was submitted on 19 Jun 2023
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The real core difference is that XMPP just passes messages around (and history is just bolted on as an extra thingy between you and your server), while Matrix is literally a federated database of message history.
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A bit different, but is anyone using SimpleX?
SimpleX has worked great in my experience! Currently torn between SimpleX and XMPP.
Loved XMPP. There were issues. It was not always great at firewall traversal. Some of the other messages were more stable out-and-about. Moving to cell too kind of killed this stuff as who is going to keep their data on.
How would you compare it to Matrix? I use Matrix and have never tried XMPP.
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@privsecfoss I would absolutely love to get back to #XMPP as my main (ideally only) IM, but in time some things made it hard to do so:
- it's extensible and not all clients support all modernly needed extensions - the #Jabber XEP solves this (on paper/standard level)
- loads of spam - again, tackled by Jabber XEP bundle and clients that fully implement it
- and ultimately, 90% of my contacts there never pop up anymore - network effect problem
@hook
Extensibility is not a reason not to use XMPP.
It's true, not all XMPP software supports every feature. However we didn't all stop browsing the web because Internet Explorer 6 doesn't support HTML5 🙂
There is plenty of modern XMPP software to choose from, and if you don't want to choose, Snikket is a great place to start (in my humble opinion - I work on that project).
@privsecfoss
@mattj, you are totally right re extensibility & I probably worded that a bit awkwardly (I blame jetlag).
I guess my gist would be:
• XMPP is amazing, but also complex
• complexity ⇒ many clients
• small(ish) user base ⇒ not all clients support full Jabber XEP
• ⇒ choice paralysis or bad experience with first choice
• ⇒ user base stays small(ish)
🐔 & 🥚
IMHO to break out of it, we need critical mass (again).
( using #XMPP / #Jabber since 2010: https://matija.suklje.name/migrating-to-xmppjabber-and-aim-woes )
@hook
I understand. Your points somewhat echo what's written at https://snikket.org/about/goals/ and https://snikket.org/blog/products-vs-protocols/ . I think we agree on many things.
I just get triggered when these problems turn into reasons not to take action. I migrated my family to XMPP and it's great. Others have done the same.
I didn't ask them to choose clients, I just sent them an invitation link to our self-hosted server. They didn't even need tech support signing up.
My message: don't give up 🙂
@privsecfoss
@mattj, I guess you’re right.
I’m probably paralysed a bit due to my main XMPP server being (someone else’s) small instance that’s not very maintained (can’t blame them) and every time I log in I’m literally greeted with hundreds (thousands?) of spam invites and messages.
I should probably migrate to a more active server. Happy to pay/donate for it too.
(I moved my family to #Matrix, but would prefer #Jabber, esp. if self-hosting was easy enough for my weak-ass admin skills.)
@hook
https://snikket.org/hosting/ is a paid (well, currently free while in beta 🤫) service that I work on.
There are other hosting options too: https://wiki.xmpp.org/web/XMPP_Hosting_Providers
@privsecfoss