The answer is proxmox, not portainer
this post was submitted on 28 Jan 2024
28 points (96.7% liked)
Selfhosted
40645 readers
144 users here now
A place to share alternatives to popular online services that can be self-hosted without giving up privacy or locking you into a service you don't control.
Rules:
-
Be civil: we're here to support and learn from one another. Insults won't be tolerated. Flame wars are frowned upon.
-
No spam posting.
-
Posts have to be centered around self-hosting. There are other communities for discussing hardware or home computing. If it's not obvious why your post topic revolves around selfhosting, please include details to make it clear.
-
Don't duplicate the full text of your blog or github here. Just post the link for folks to click.
-
Submission headline should match the article title (don’t cherry-pick information from the title to fit your agenda).
-
No trolling.
Resources:
- selfh.st Newsletter and index of selfhosted software and apps
- awesome-selfhosted software
- awesome-sysadmin resources
- Self-Hosted Podcast from Jupiter Broadcasting
Any issues on the community? Report it using the report flag.
Questions? DM the mods!
founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS
So first, I’m not really looking to change operating systems. I’ve got my system set up the way I like it, where it closely matches the production systems I run for my company.
Second, why do you say the answer is Proxmox? What benefit does that have over other solutions that can be more easily integrated into my existing operating system?
Not many UIs can do containers and VMs
[Sorry for my not really well written reply, you really need to try different options, and in my opinion proxmox is like the only choice because of how many cool things you can do there]
Proxmox I just really good, and if you want to spin up VMs easily you will need to reshape your setup anyway
With proxmox you can do like everything with VMs, containers, etc. Not just managing only containers, or just showing status of the VMs
Also, proxmox is not really an operating system, it's a service on top of Debian (in many cases you start installing proxmox by installing Debian)
Can proxmox do docker containers? Last I checked it could only do LXC
Yo dawg, I put most of my services in a Docker container inside their own LXC container. It used to bug me that this seems like a less than optimal use of resources, but I love the management - all the VM and containers on one pane of glass, super simple snapshots, dead easy to move a service between machines, and simple to instrument the LXC for monitoring.
I see other people doing, and I'm interested in, an even more generic system (maybe Cockpit or something) but I've been really happy with this. If OP's dream is managing all the containers and VM's together, I'd back having a look at Proxmox.
Yes it can, but not out of the box, and yeah, if you want the ui it will be that portainer again 😂
I use Docker LXCs. Really just a Debian LXC with Docker and then Portainer as a UI. I have separate LXCs for common services. Arrs on one LXC, Nextcloud, Immich and SearXNG on another, Invidious on a third. I just separate them so I don't need to kill all services if I need to restart or take down the LXC for whatever reason.
Thanks. I did check it out and it looks like it’s got some really cool benefits, like being able to cluster across two machines and take one down if it needs servicing, with zero down time.
I’m thinking about buying some rack mount servers and bringing everything I’m currently doing in the cloud for my business to on-premises servers. The one thing I was wary about was how I was going to handle hardware maintenance, and this looks like it would solve that issue nicely.
For the system itself I would recommend nixos
Some people like it, some people are against progress and they think work should be manual 🤣
I'm using nixos and all my machines, even integrating my phone in it
You can automate and replicate unbelievable stuff with it. You solve a bunch of problems by using nixos
But it's a whole big rabbit whole, and it would take a lot of time to learn how to use it, then a lot of time to set everything up
But you could do zero downtime hardware maintenance without VMs or containers, just by using bare metal
Edit: or with VMs, containers, or k8s. Everything would be just cleaner and cooler
Proxmox doesn't manage docker, it wouldn't do anything for OP.
Proxmox does VMs and containers (LXC). You can run any docker / podman manager you want in a container.
Benefits of having Proxmox as the base is ZFS / snapshoting and easy setup of multiple boot drives, which is really nice when one drive inevitably fails 😏
Yes but Proxmox doesn't manage docker, OP wants a webUI to see all their docker containers.
I agree running Proxmox as a base OS is the way to go, but you'll still need Dockge, Portainer, etc to have a webUI for docker stuff.
Portainer doesn't manage VMs either
But at least you can do docker inside proxmox, and kinda manage it, or put something else on top of it
With docker containers I've moved from portainer to dockge. It lets you see the birds eye view, but also lets you directly edit the compose file from the UI. I haven't been using it very long, but so far I like it.
You will need to find something else for vms though. I use proxmox.
Looks interesting. How does it compare to portainer stacks?
It's a bit simpler than portainer, but I appreciate being able to edit the docker compose file directly rather than trying to find all the right buttons in portainer.
Might give it a look, the UI for portainer is frustrating but I mostly use the stacks.
Portainer and Cockpit if you want to run VM (it also manage container but only with podman)
Cockpit looks interesting. It’s got a lot of features I normally do with terminal commands, but the VM manager stuff looks like what I’m looking for.
Give portainer a try. It's actually pretty good for getting a birdseye view, and let's you manage more than one docker server.
It's not perfect of course.
Note that if you want actual virtualization then perhaps Proxmox (not sure if it manages multiple hypervisors - I haven't obtained something to test it on yet). Portainer is best for Docker management (it, and it's client agents, run as docker containers themselves. Don't forget to enable web sockets if proxying.
I tried portainer and it was overkill for my usage, too much overhead and too many features that I don't need.
Right now I'm using ajenti 2, which shows memory and CPU usage for the docker containers in the web page
If you're running a compatible OS (Debian will work), cockpit for VMs and whatever you like for containers.
Or just do everything on the command line like us crusty system admins
Cockpit is great.
It's pretty simplistic. It gives you an overview of your system ressources and handles libvirt VMs and Docker (i think. I used it with Podman, but in this context both should work).
My impression was that the container and VM interfaces were pretty simple, and I wouldn't have liked it as my main interface for those services, but it would be perfect for getting an overview and restarting them!
That’s not too easy methinks. You get kvm vm-s though gui/shell/api with proxmox, but no docker (they use lxc). Unless you set up a podman or similar inside it.
If you’re made of money there’s always https://www.vmware.com/products/vsphere/vsphere-with-tanzu.html
Other than that I’d say go with a xen (xcp-ng). Proxmox or esxi host, and spin up a vm as docker host.
I ditched docker in my latest setup, just running 2 machines in a proxmox cluster. I like lxc - as it’s got the footprint of docker and behaves like a vm
Dockge or Portainer are both good options.
For VMs you'll need to find something else, you could use Cockpit for that.
Do they work with podman? Or anything for podman?
Thanks for mentioning Dockge, hadn't heard of it yet. Already use portainer but it seems a bit overkill for me and my few containers. Will try Dockge.
Acronyms, initialisms, abbreviations, contractions, and other phrases which expand to something larger, that I've seen in this thread:
| Fewer Letters | More Letters |
|---|---|
| LXC | Linux Containers |
| SSH | Secure Shell for remote terminal access |
| ZFS | Solaris/Linux filesystem focusing on data integrity |
| k8s | Kubernetes container management package |
4 acronyms in this thread; the most compressed thread commented on today has 11 acronyms.
[Thread #464 for this sub, first seen 29th Jan 2024, 16:55] [FAQ] [Full list] [Contact] [Source code]
What about incus, the LXD fork, with the webui? Incus is so simple/logical for managing both VMs and containers (and you can run docker inside of them) and the webui lets you manage it from a browser if desired
What's wrong with ssh?
Nothing. I’ve been using SSH. I’d like to have both options, SSH and a web UI.