this post was submitted on 01 May 2024
24 points (90.0% liked)

Actual Discussion

272 readers
1 users here now

Are you tired of going into controversial threads and having people not discuss things, circlejerking, or using emotional responses in place of logic? Us too.

Welcome to Actual Discussion!

DO:

DO NOT:

For more casual conversation instead of competitive ranked conversation, try: [email protected]

founded 9 months ago
MODERATORS
 

Reminder: This post is from the Community Actual Discussion. You’re encouraged to use voting for elevating constructive, or lowering unproductive, posts and comments here. When disagreeing, replies detailing your views are appreciated. For other rules, please see this pinned thread. Thanks!

This weekly thread will focus on the phrase "The Cruelty Is The Point", which may take some explanation.

Frequently on Lemmy (and elsewhere), I see the phrase in comment threads. In my experience, it has been referencing any policy that is contrary to a Liberal or Leftist belief that the thread discusses. I have found the phrase when discussing trans issues, housing, taxes, healthcare, abortion, and many more.

This does not mean it doesn't exist elsewhere, it is simply where I see it since I spend much of my social media time on Lemmy. If your experience differs, please let us know!

Some Starters (and don’t feel you have to speak on all or any of them if you don’t care to):

  • Do you believe this? If so, why?
  • Is it true / false in some or all scenarios?
  • Is it with certain groups or regarding certain things?
  • Do you feel that speech like this is conducive to fixing societal issues?
  • Is what is considered "kind" always the best course of action?
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] [email protected] 4 points 6 months ago (1 children)

Most of the time with issues “the point” is cost-saving, stubbornness, cause & effect disagreements, or difference of opinion on how to carry things out

Part of the reason for the phrase I'd say is that said policies aren't even effective at what they aim to do. It often costs more and makes their perceived problem worse (or at very least, hurts their own side in some other way), and it's even worse for the original problem. When this continuously occurs it doesn't seem like a good-faith action.

Cruelty is the only thing that they can consistently get right. Could it be that they're just that incompetent? Maybe, but it sure seems like they're happy with the result.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 6 months ago

I agree that things done for an many reasons including ineptness, nonscientific views, fear, reactionary politics, poor training, or even doing things from a detached perspective can seem cruel, but the cruelty is not the point. The cruelty is a byproduct, not the goal. It's a bad and oversimplified phrase and in nearly every serves to obfuscates issues.

For example, knocking down a big tree can seem cruel if you're a squirrel and live there. But if you're a human, maybe you know that that tree was damaged in a storm and is about to fall over and destroy a few homes and potentially kill someone.

A serial killer torturing a victim? Maybe the power is the goal. Maybe the rush is the goal. The cruelty? It's a means to an end. Understanding goals is how we stop people. Hand-waving away true reasons behind things doesn't help us understand and therefore stop them.

You can handily cherry-pick examples throughout history of people being outwardly psychotic, and I'd agree with you. However, when used in modern-day political contexts, most of the time it's used in reference to the things I mentioned. Ineptness, fear, nonscientific views, etc.