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TIL 40 states in the US charge you $20-$80 a day for being incarcerated in prison.
(en.m.wikipedia.org)
this post was submitted on 02 May 2024
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This is some serious "keep hitting yourself" material. It's not like you can decide to not be incarcerated. $7300-$29200 of debt per year spent in prison. Man, that is some vicious shit. Nobody will be able to convince me that this is not specifically designed to keep people down forever.
Exactly. Recidivism makes a lot more sense now.
Imagine if you had $30,000 of debt right after you get out of jail with zero contacts and social support.
Yeah of course you're going to go back to what you were doing before, you have no other options that you're aware of.
Fuck that system.
You also have a record which makes getting hired even more difficult.
“Here’s the opposite of a college degree for the same price”
A lot of the education programs in prison are equally vile. They have people learn a few skills or trades, then when they get out they learn it’s impossible to get a state license in that trade because they are felons.
My wife knows a guy who learned programming in prison. He was apparently extremely lucky in which one he was sent to. And I don’t mean like “was fortunate for how he was charged” no he got sent to the most recent “prison reform” prison. They never close or update the old ones, just use prison reform as a justification to build a new one.
It's not rehabilitation, it's slavery with extra steps
The amendment banning slavery says you can still enslave people if it's to punish them for a crime
Prisons are largely privatized nowadays, creating a demand for prisoners as they profit off of the free labor they get from prisoners
Rehabilitation efforts in the modern penal system are largely non-existent, with people usually coming out more violent and criminal than they came in, even if it was a bullshit arrest.
Black people are incarcerated at higher rates and with harsher sentences than white people for the same crimes, they also tend to get found guilty on much weaker evidence than their white peers
If you think it's a coincidence, I can't help you
Were you responding to me specifically or just sharing this information in general?
I am talking to you, I'm just saying the system wasn't designed this way out of stupidity, but malice.
Got it.
And it’s never going to change either. No politician would ever campaign on a platform of prison reform, few would even vote in favor of it. Imagine the attack ads “Jeff Jackson wants to let murders and rapists go free and work at your kid’s school. Jack Jefferson protects kids and is tough on criminals voting three time to ~~ensure growth of his investments in PrisonMegaCorp~~ make sure they rot in prison forever… I’m Jack Jefferson and I approve this message.”
Prison reform can happen in the United States, and it can be used as a platform by Earnest politicians like Bernie Sanders or AOC.
Prison abuse and reform happened in other countries, and there isn't any evidence for inherent American exceptionalism
People are people, so positive prison reforms can happen in the States too.
It would be nice if the prisoners could take class or earn a degree while in prison, at least when they get out they have a new skill or a degree so they have a better chance to get a job to pay off their prison debt.
In Finland low risk prisoners can even get (or keep) a job. They drive a loaner car from the prison to their job in the morning and then drive back to prison in the afternoon.
Oh here in America they have to hold a job. If they work really hard they may even make a few dollars a day
It all goes to the company store.
Well after they’re done shaking down your loved ones too. It’s ok together you can all theoretically scrape together enough to keep you fed
It's actual the one instance where slavery is legal, and most prisoners are black because of obvious racial bias in the court system.... I wonder if that's a concidence....
As someone who's lived in the US her life everytime I hear about other first world nations it sounds so idyllic that if you put it in a Utopian Future Sci-Fi novel I'd laugh and call it hopelessly optimistic and just incredibly naive about how humans work....
But... no... people outside of America actually live like this...
This is not a cry for help (It totally is, I hate it here)
But for real though, if America wasn't a world power (at the expense of its citizens' well-being) or if there were other world powers strong as or stronger than it that weren't Russia or China, I would not be even slightly surprised if it offered amnesty to US Citizens fleeing Late Stage Capitalism, at this point it'd be morally justified...
The UN actually did surveys here and found that Americans (especially in rural areas) experience levels of poverty that said UN believed to only exist in the worst case scenarios of 3rd World Countries. The problem is THAT bad...
God I hope there's an afterlife, that may be the only way any of us see true freedom... escaping reality itself.
Omg I can hear my parents now:
"Wait, I had to work and save and still not be able to afford an education?!?! I sHoUlD hAvE jUsT hElD uP a CoNvEnIeNcE sToRe."
I agree with you, 100%, FWIW. I'm just imagining the asinine conversations we're going to have to have with people who don't understand that the world doesn't revolve around them and they're not the main character.
This is a standart in German prisons.
Do all the politicians sleep in prison?
What do you mean? I was talking about having education in prison.
They can
Not always.
However:
So access to education seems to be one of those things that is at least partially lip service. Education might be offered, it also might be substandard compared to a regular school. However, if it is offered and decent, inmates who have participated in getting a GED or better education state that it did help with avoiding recidivism and having better mental health.
https://www.degreechoices.com/blog/prison-education-usa/
A survey of 100 people out of 10s of thousands is useless.
Ok. Glad you weighed in with your expertise. This may not be the exhaustive survey that would offer incontrovertible proof, but it’s what we’ve got. Care to offer anything to the contrary other than an opinion?
You can cherry-pick anything if you have 22K people to pick from and only need 100. We don't how and at which point the question was asked. We don't know the selection process. All we know is that they got 100 people to say something. It shouldn't matter if we agree with the findings.
Ok. So you’re attacking the source, not the argument, while absolving yourself of any effort to contribute to the discussion. Well done.
Seriously? You seem to only care that the survey results show what you want them to show. Apparently it doesn't matter how shoddy the survey was done, as long as it says what you want it to say, you're okay with that and will attack anyone who points out that it's flawed. This is Anthony Wakefield territory.
No, but thanks for telling me what I’m thinking. I provided some evidence. You complain that it doesn’t meet your arbitrary standard. I call you out and ask you to provide information that contradicts the study. IDGAF, I don’t have a dog in this fight whether the study contains valid data or not, but if you’re going to call “bullshit”, provide contrary data. If all you want to do is complain about the study, there’s the door. I’m here to have a conversation about education in prisons, not your opinion on the study.
You can, just not a degree specifically but you can get certifications and a ged in prison
I commented this elsewhere, but a lot of those certifications are not worth anything because if you are a felon you cannot get that state license.
You absolutely can still use those certifications and they are often the stepping stone to help you get your foot in the door in an industry. I used to work IT in corrections and while not everyone winds up making it, I've seen felons go on to make $40/hr doing welding.
I do not agree with the US when it comes to corrections at all and I think it is blatantly abused in order to incarcerate as many people as possible, but I will give credit where it is due, not ALL hope is lost if you get incarcerated
You can use some of them, but there are a few like a barber’s license (in some states) that cannot be used.
People spend their time thinking they are reinventing themselves in prison only to find out they cannot work in said field/trade.
That would happen if Rehabilitation was the goal, that is not the point of the private prison system, the point is to legalize slavery.
Nobody will convince me that two plus two isn't four.
If the twos are very small, it might be a heavy three.
"It's not like you can decide to not be incarcerated"
You can though..