There are no ethical choices under first-past-the-post voting. We must instead make a decision that reduces the most harm.
this post was submitted on 05 May 2024
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Yeah, luckily not voting and Trump getting elected that person wouldn't be thinking of their lost family. They wouldn't be thinking about anything for that matter, as they'd be fucking dead. Trump has demonstrated his support for expanding the conflict and finishing the job. It is absolutely better for that person who lost their family to not be dead.
"Luckily"???
Luckily was sarcastic you idiot.
And yeah, it sucks but so do so many other things we have to choose in life. Cleaning up shit from a pet isn't fun, but sometimes it needs to be done. Sometimes we also need to choose the president that's not going to do as much damage. You have to get your hands dirty.
Not voting shouldn't keep your conscience clean. Its like the trolley problem. 100 people on one track, one on the other. You can choose to pull the lever or not. Not pulling it is still a choice. There's no option where you aren't complicit because you could have done something.
Also, there's no need to call me "idiot," and being honest it's quite ableist
Funny how liberals are always calling leftists things like "idiot" -- really shows their complete disdain for anyone to the left of Reagan. I've had liberal Democrats straight-up gloat that they don't care what leftists think. Mask. Fucking. Off.
Dude, I'm an anarchist. Don't kid yourself that you're the only real leftist because you tell people not to vote. Just fuck off with that shit.
Idiot also isn't really ableist. It isn't the medical term it used to be. It's to call someone stupid, which was either willful or not. I don't know. It feels more like prupsoeful misrepresentation of what I wrote, or you didn't even try to understand it, because even the most impaired person almost certainly could.
Totally an "anarchist" who relentlessly echoes pro-state neoliberal propaganda and insults anyone who doesn't accept it. Mhm surrrrrre you are
Yeah, because only neiberals say to vote! Only a true leftist would be self-defeating! /s
Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels stated in The Communist Manifesto and later works that "the first step in the revolution by the working class, is to raise the proletariat to the position of ruling class, to win the battle for democracy" and universal suffrage, being "one of the first and most important tasks of the militant proletariat". (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy_in_Marxism)
There is something to be said for the idea that you only have two choices, although that is a matter of fact because of the "[c]onstitution…which makes it appear as though every vote were lost that is cast for a candidate not put up by one of the two governing parties." (Engels to Frederick Adolph Sorge, December 2, 1893, in Marx and Engels on the United States (Moscow: Progress Publishers, 1979), p. 333.) We need to change how this works, but that needs to be done through a grassroots movement for local level elections at first. This requires voting and participation.
A revolution almost certainly isn't happening, and it's not going to go the way you want. If it were to happen, it'd be bloody and brutal and you wouldn't enjoy it. Also, it's not exactly guaranteed that the leftists win. If anything, I'd bet against it because the other imperialist nations wouldn't want that to happen.
Good thing we're off to a great start showing unity by calling allies "idiots" and discarding the lives of Palestinians and immigrants
Solidarity means if they harm one of us, it harms us all. What they do to Palestinians, they do to me.
I'd say the same about immigrants except I've actually had family deported under his fascist ass
If voting is best, so be it, but fuck right off with being so callous as to refer to it as "harm reduction"
Don't be an asshole and seemingly purposefully misrepresent what people say. That's far more harmful than anyone being called an idiot. Practice what your preach if you're so high and mighty with speech.
Where am I discarding their lives? Please, point to it. I've only said things that say they need us to vote or things will be worse for them. Stop strawmaning me and sealioning. If Trump gets elected they're going to be massacred. Trump will endorse the genocide and he'll also ramp up anti-immigrant actions. Sure, Biden sucks but he does speak out against Israeli actions now and they are trying to limit some support.
I didn't call it that, but what would you call it? Its something that decreases the amount of damage that's being done while not fully resolving the issue. It's reducing the effects of something harmful. It's harm reduction.
That's not what harm reduction is. That's never how the term's been applied. I know language can change, but abruptly fabricating an opposite meaning in an attempt to dodge consequences for one's bad actions (potentially losing a campaign due to one's undying dedication to genocide and fascism) is not an appropriate treatment of the term.
Ok but what else are we going to do? What can we do to stop the genocide? Are we in favor of dismantling the system that made this happen, or are we ok with it?
Protest, take direct action, whatever you want. Get organized with some other groups. There are plenty. (Edit: nothing you do is going to stop this genocide though. It's far too late, though we can decrease the harm that is done.)
Telling people not to take an action isn't helpful. You always see people (who say they're leftist, although some are certainly right wing trolls) saying not to vote, and they never advocate for doing other things. How about protest, but also vote? Why would anyone advocate for not doing something? The only reason I can think of us to get their guy elected instead.
If your contribution is saying to do less, fuck off. If you're saying to do more then welcome. You may actually help.
Yes, a million times this. Voting is just one small part of what we must do to fight for a better future. Giving up is not an option, there is far too much at stake. Vote, protest, occupy, run for office, take direct action, organize, and create a better world for the people who come after us. Solidarity forever.