this post was submitted on 29 May 2024
1329 points (98.1% liked)

Science Memes

10264 readers
2890 users here now

Welcome to c/science_memes @ Mander.xyz!

A place for majestic STEMLORD peacocking, as well as memes about the realities of working in a lab.



Rules

  1. Don't throw mud. Behave like an intellectual and remember the human.
  2. Keep it rooted (on topic).
  3. No spam.
  4. Infographics welcome, get schooled.


Research Committee

Other Mander Communities

Science and Research

Biology and Life Sciences

Physical Sciences

Humanities and Social Sciences

Practical and Applied Sciences

Memes

Miscellaneous

founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS
 
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] [email protected] 15 points 3 months ago (2 children)

I wanna do a PhD so bad I even started publishing during my undergrad But the publishing fees is too much just too much 100$ in a third world nation is a lot even after that the research is kept under a paywall, so disgusting

[–] [email protected] 3 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (1 children)

Do you not write the publishing fees into your grant proposals? And the paywall is just to access through the journal, you can generally just email the author and they will send you a PDF of the work - because the whole point is for the work to be known about and referenced in more work, which can only be done if it's read. The work being in the journal means that it's been peer-reviewed and is scientifically rigorous (which is part of what the fee covers)

[–] [email protected] 2 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Mostly I have a problem with it being paywalled, I paid for it to be peer reviewed why they get to make money off it. Also peer reviewers are not compensated either

[–] [email protected] 1 points 3 months ago (1 children)

The reviewers are not compensated, but the editorial staff that maintain the journal are (part of which is recruiting and maintaining a reviewing board, soliciting comments, sending articles for review/rewrite, etc), as well as the staff that organize and put together the conferences that each journal hosts, and all other aspects of maintaining a journal such as partnerships with libraries and schools, memberships lists, etc. Did you think the fee only covered the Internet hosting?

[–] [email protected] 1 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Arxive or techarxive is doing it for free

[–] [email protected] 2 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Except those are for pre-print and post-print and don't offer peer review

[–] [email protected] 1 points 3 months ago (1 children)

for the hosting and all

They charge enough to pay for their staff why can't just make it open access

[–] [email protected] 1 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (1 children)

The resources you mentioned are hosted through Cornell by volunteers (who have other full time jobs), presumably Cornell has a rigorous in-house hosting system. And this is only for receiving the articles submitted to them that are pre- and post-print, they do not solicit articles or comments, nor do they have management of any journal publications or events.

I truly do not think you are grasping the enormity of the tasks required to run a journal. It is not simply forwarding the article to peer reviewers and then hosting it. There are legal aspects that go along with managing a journal, recruiting a review board for each article (making sure they are experts in the field, not just random reviewers), getting comments on each article, maintaining a job board for a student chapter, hosting events, hosting annual or biannual conferences, and so many more things. Each article doesn't just get put up online, it literally needs to be PUBLISHED which comes with it's own aspects, isbn numbers, doi number, fees, etc.

The paywall includes paying for the specific article, or becoming a member of the journal. Being member of the journal unlocks ALL articles in the journal (which didn't used to be the case prior to digital editions. I still have my physical journals editions of many journals I'm a member of because it used to be you only had access to the articles from the years you were actually a member and were sent the physical copies). Many people that publish will be members of the journal which lowers the cost to submit articles significantly, while also giving them access to the articles published. Additionally, instead of looking solely at the journal for the article, most people know to look at the source of the research for the PDF (ie, look for the author's university site or personal page to look for a link to a PDF) because generally whoever paid for the research wants the research to be available to be read, especially if it was paid for by taxpayers. And STILL if you find an article that you don't have access to, and your university is not a member to the journal or local library is not a member and neither can do an interlibrary loan for it, you can STILL simply email the author and ask if they can send it to you and chances are they will be more than willing.

So I'm still not entirely sure what the issue is, except an incredibly immature and naive desire to complain about information not being open access because grr I've been told all capitalism is bad, so I must apply it to everything because I don't know how to actually look for information and don't know how to think for myself grrr.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 3 months ago (1 children)

I will leave you to read about the man who refute a million $ prize and read his reasons

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grigori_Perelman

[–] [email protected] 1 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Do you even understand WHY he refused the prize? It was because correct work shouldn't have to be rewarded (and because Hamilton's work was equal to his). That doesn't negate the fact that the work still needs to be reviewed and be reproducible (ie, peer reviewed), it just means let's not waste time and money standing around and applauding ourselves.

That still doesn't have anything to do with any of the previous comments.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Just read about his views over publishing industry

[–] [email protected] 1 points 3 months ago (1 children)

I really don't think you have a grasp on what his view actually were - and people tend to try to twist what little is out there from him into what they want it to mean. Being disillusioned by the infighting for credit amongst his peers is not the same as having an issue with publishing. There's nothing in that argument that says publishing or the industry is the issue - just the arguing for credit. The only information he gave about why he stopped publishing was that he didn't want to be in the public eye like he was on display like he was in a zoo by being offered rewards.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 3 months ago

I mean he said it openly about publishing on axive instead of a well known journal

[–] [email protected] 1 points 3 months ago (2 children)

Woah, no one I know has ever paid a publishing fee. Where are you publishing? Anywhere that asks for money is a scam journal. Also, a PhD is fully funded by nature, so all fees for anything should come from your program.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 3 months ago (2 children)

Most well regarded journals in STEM require a publishing fee. That is not the case for the humanities and I believe social sciences, which are always free.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 3 months ago

Oh I didn’t know, thanks. For some reason I assumed they were waived

[–] [email protected] -2 points 3 months ago (1 children)

In the off chance that I get to writing a paper, I'm just going to publish it in one of the free ones and add a license to it that prevents the money grabbing ones from using it.
If noone looks at it, it's their loss.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Problem is that would tank the citations or H score and then it would just exist for the sake of existing.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 3 months ago

You can only win one battle.
And you have to choose what you push for.

This problem wouldn't have existed, had enough people migrated to open journals during the internet boom.

And if reviewers are not being paid anyway, they might as well start working with someone that's not a money sink.
Of course I can't say much in this regard, as I have never been a reviewer (probably not even qualifying), but I'd rather be associated with an organisation that focusses on giving a better service than on wringing funds and work out of all that deal with them.

Anti Commercial-AI license

[–] [email protected] 1 points 3 months ago (1 children)

I wish to immigrate and for that I need to stand out from the other applicants I assumed the easiest way would be through publications.

It was IEEE that's one of the flagship organization in STEM

[–] [email protected] 1 points 3 months ago (1 children)

If your field is computer science or eng, publishing in one of the A ranking conferences for your field is as good as top journal publishing

[–] [email protected] 1 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Getting accepted is a nightmare

[–] [email protected] 1 points 3 months ago (1 children)

I would use accepted papers as an example, I find that usually helps

[–] [email protected] 1 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Thanks but are telling me to build over their work

[–] [email protected] 2 points 3 months ago (2 children)

Not exactly, you should do what interests you. I meant as in look at accepted papers for tips on organization, flow, how to explain your methodology and present figures etc. Really great research can suffer sometimes if no one can understand your methodology or your motivation for your experiments. But of course besides that it’s helpful if the presented work is meaningful and impactful for your field (your project advisor can help scope this)

[–] [email protected] 1 points 3 months ago
[–] [email protected] 1 points 3 months ago