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Ukraine faces its darkest hour (www.ft.com)

submitted 1 month ago by [email protected] to c/[email protected]

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Military at the front wants talks with Russia, Ukrainian society is "exhausted"

Returning home from the US, Zelenskyy faces Russian advances, an exhausted society and the prospect of winter energy shortages

Once buoyed by hopes of liberating their lands, even soldiers at the front now voice a desire for negotiations with Russia to end the war. Yuriy, another commander on the eastern front who gave only his first name, says he fears the prospect of a “forever war”.

“I am for negotiations now,” he adds, expressing his concern that his son — also a soldier — could spend much of his life fighting and that his grandson might one day inherit an endless conflict.

https://archive.is/Ylpt9

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[–] [email protected] 8 points 1 month ago (2 children)

Turns out that being the front of yet another US/Russian proxy war sucks, as it always does, and maybe you should have thought about that before happily volunteering your country for the job.

I'm sure the next country the US wants to proxy into oblivion will learn from Ukraine, right? anakin-padme-4

[–] [email protected] 13 points 1 month ago (1 children)

I’m sure the next country the US wants to proxy into oblivion will learn from Ukraine, right?

That would be Taiwan, possibly alongside Korea and Japan, right?

[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 month ago (1 children)

I think this is likely. I could see the US starting a proxy somewhere in South America too but nothing feels particularly primed for it. Taiwan definitely seems like the next major bet.

If it's not Taiwan, it might be somewhere else that is regional specifically to keep China busy. India, something like that. The US values Taiwan extremely highly because of TSMC so they may decide that starting a war there is too risky.

[–] [email protected] -1 points 1 month ago

US and Taiwan both are perfectly happy with the status quo, they would be the last people to start any wars there.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 month ago (1 children)

and maybe you should have thought about that before happily volunteering your country for the job.

As opposed to... What?

[–] [email protected] 8 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Minsk Accords, or even a single peace talk

[–] [email protected] -1 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Russia wants Ukrainian territory and a puppet leader like they had before 2014. Ukraine doesn't want to give them that territory or let them install a puppet leader. This is not a conflict peace talks can solve.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Fighting doesn't appear to be getting us any closer to solving it either. Pick your poison.

[–] [email protected] -1 points 1 month ago (1 children)

I mean maybe but if the Ukrainian people want to try and save their country then let them.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 month ago (1 children)

We are letting them.

[–] [email protected] -4 points 1 month ago (1 children)

I mean yes. I'm addressing tankies who like to shit on Ukraine on the internet for not taking Russians offers for "peace".

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 month ago (1 children)

There it is.

You do realize that this thread is about Ukrainians who are expressing their desires for peace talks, right?

What about you, who are encouraging people to march to their deaths? How are you any better than a ‘tankie’ who wants peace negotiations?

You aren’t better. You’re worse. You want people to die for some patriotic pride you’re applying to them.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 month ago

What about you, who are encouraging people to march to their deaths?

I'm not. If they want to cut their losses and hope for the best, more power to them. If they don't, also more power to them. But don't go pretending negotiations with Russia are some magic solution that will solve everything. These people are forced to choose between attempting to fight off a seemingly unbeatable aggressor or submitting to said aggressor, and neither is particularly attractive.

You aren’t better. You’re worse. You want people to die for some patriotic pride you’re applying to them.

So first, reported for incivility. Second, I'm not American or European or whatever you thought I am just now. I don't have a horse in this race.