this post was submitted on 30 Oct 2024
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I think Trump has been ringing up Netanyahu regularly to argue against Israel agreeing to Biden's ceasefire plan, like he said he is, so Trump is working to keep the genocide in Gaza going and you can't bring yourself to admit this or talk about it while Trump felt admits it and even boasts of it in public.
Why can't both be true? Sure. Trump tells Netanyahu not to accept the ceasefire. And when Netanyahu says no, rather than doing something to further pressure him, like making the munitions we send them conditional on a ceasefire, he just gives up and sends more bombs.
We've tried nothing and we're all out of options! We asked him nicely to stop and he told us no. :(
One of two people will be president next: Kamala Harris or Donald Trump. It's very important for the people of Gaza that it's Kamala, not Trump. It's a literal binary choice that the country faces. And then there's the denying healthcare to women of childbearing age, the mass deportations, the plan to be dictator on day one, all of project 2025, the plan to send the military against leftwingers for disagreeing with Trump, all apart from the simping, fawning and sucking up to every dictator Trump can wheedle an appointment with and who has the nous to realise Trump will love them forever just for calling him clever or strong in public. I used to think that Putin had some compromat on Trump that kept him doing his bidding, but it became painfully obvious that that's not needed, and Putin just needs to whisper in his ear that he's a great leader and everyone respects him, and Trump is bought, yes, all that cheaply.
I 100% agree with you on everything in this comment. My only point is that regardless of how badly trump wants to finish the job, Harris certainly doesn't seem to want to stop it. And as such, she isn't free from criticism. Moreover she needs to hear more criticism to push her into walking back her support of Israel "defending itself" by retaliating in a wildly disproportionate fashion. And the key time to do it was in the lead up to the election, because if she felt like enough people were upset about it that it could cost her the election, it had a higher chance of making a difference.
It's possible to believe Trump is an evil piece of shit, but also that Harris needs to improve. Just because she's the better choice doesn't mean she's perfect.
I'll admit it right now. Not that it matters why Netanyahu is refusing to negotiate.
You seem to be under the impression that "negotiation" means "asking nicely and giving up if they say no." If Netanyahu refuses to cooperate, you stop giving him weapons until he does. Obviously. How bad do you have to be at negotiating to not realize that?
I'd imagine they have enough munitions and suppliers for it not to matter, and doing so will simply deteriorate relations, causing the US to hold less sway with its one ally in the region.
Nah, that's too nuanced - just don't give them guns and they'll stop.
It doesn't really matter what you imagine. It's worked before and I bet it'll work again. And even if it doesn't and Israel is entirely independent from the US and totally needs nothing from us.... Why is that a reason to supply them. Great they don't need our shit let's stop giving it to em.
Hold less sway with an ally... What good is that sway of we can't stop a genocide with it? Or really slow it down even a pinch? I'd rather people doing genocide don't like us actually... They're evil.
So you admit that Trump is actively working to prolong the genocide in Gaza and then you ignore that and come straight back with your weird logic that the people who are trying to stop him are culpable and the people trying to get him to kill more gets a pass from you, and you want me to believe you care about Gaza?! You do not, you're just cynically using it as a political football to try and win the election for stupid, senile and angry old man Donald "finish them" "best king of Israel" Trump.
So you believe that Biden should be completely immune to all criticism no matter what he does so long as he's not Trump? I should just invent a fantasy world where Biden is perfect the way you do because acknowledging reality might hurt Kamala's chances? If I was interested in doing that, then I would've done it with the beliefs I was raised with, and I'd be a religious conservative. Fortunately, I'm willing to think critically and face reality, instead of putting party above truth, as you seem to be suggesting I do right now. I want no part in any group or political ideology that requires me to lie or ignore the truth.
Keep repeating that conspiracy theory to yourself all you want. Ad hominem is the only response you libs can ever muster. You can't refute what I actually say, so you just focus on trying to paint me as a secret Trump supporter. Weak.
It's not ad hominem to point out that all of your criticisms are for the Democrats and you can barely muster half a sentence of admission that trump might not be the savior of Gaza you're implying, and that your whole argument is politically biased against the Democrats and for the republicans.
If you don't want to be accused of being a trump supporter, at least make some effort towards even a tiny bit of balance. But no, you can't do it. For you, any factual criticism of trump and the republicans must be countered by a wall of conspiracy theory about how Biden's attempts to negotiate peace are secretly war mongering and trump's open and boastful war mongering is swept under the carpet.
I challenge you to find one thing I have said, at any time, anywhere, that implies that. You are simply lying, and again, attempting to discredit me because you know you can't address my points.
I respond to what I see. Point me to any Trump supporter on here and I will tell them why they're wrong. It's just that the vast majority of people on here, myself included, are quite clear in recognizing Trump as an awful candidate who isn't worthy of serious consideration at all.
Very rich of you to call my position on that a "conspiracy theory," when mine is backed by actual facts and yours isn't. If Biden or Kamala cared at all about stopping the genocide, they could do it in four words: "No aid until withdrawal." It's ridiculously easy.
You can not provide any explanation for why they don't do this. The only thing you can do is completely dismiss any and all criticism of your candidate, the exact same way Trump supporters do.
I have zero loyalty to the Democrats or to the Republicans, I'm quite open to that, yet you keep insisting that I have to demonstrate loyalty to your side or I'm automatically a bad actor. It's ridiculously tribalistic. This sort of behavior, people brainwashing themselves into ignoring reality, automatically dismissing all criticism, and unthinkingly championing every action of absolute ghouls, and sorting every single individual into one of two camps, is one of the reasons I want nothing to do with either of your backwards parties.
I tell you I hate Trump, you tell me I love Trump, and when I tell Trump supporters I hate Biden or Harris, they tell me I love Biden and Harris, for exactly the same reasons. What a boring, small world you all live in together, where those two perspectives are all that exist. I want nothing of it.
Now go ahead and respond to me without answering my criticisms (since you cannot, since they are objectively correct) and keep focusing on who (you think) I am, rather than what I say.
When you spend all day every day criticising the vice president for things that she doesn't even have control over, when you dismiss the fact that Trump is actively convincing the one man who can actually decide to stop it to walk away from Biden's ceasefire deal, when all you talk about is how evil the Democrats are and ignore our dismiss or minimise anything bad about the republicans, less than a week before the election, don't be surprised or upset if people call you a trump supporter, because your actions certainly support him becoming president and not taking that threat seriously is foolish.
It's not a single statement, it's a wall of argument. It's everything, you can't help yourself. The whole thrust of your argument, and there's a lot of it, implies your condemn the Democrats, excuse and condone the Republicans position.
It's the same in the very part I'm replying to. There's one sentence of criticism of Trump in the middle of a very long argument about how I'm wrong about everything I ever said and the Democrats are evil incarnate and me being so nasty to you is why you dislike Kamala and how everything wrong in the world can be laid at the feet of the Democrats again.
Your bias shines through. You're both sidesing the whole thing.
It's disingenuous. It's sometimes clever, sometimes subtle, sometimes obvious, sometimes unsubtle, but it's always a false equivalence. I don't buy your sham theoretical neutrality any more than I buy utility contracts on my doorstep.
Again, if you don't like being called a Republican or a trump supporter, don't spend all day repeating their talking points on the internet and heckling anyone who has anything bad to say about Trump or anything good to say about Harris, and don't conclude in every single post that it's all Kamala's fault and she could snap her fingers now to stop it. It isn't and she can't.
Called it.
Your first two criticisms were that you never said anything implying Trump would be better and that you wrote lots against him in threads I've never seen when the opportunity arises. (It's just the the opportunity somehow rarely arises.) I dealt with those two and clicked post because it was already long. So no, I didn't ignore your criticisms, I just disagreed with them. It's not the same thing.
No, my criticism is on Biden bypassing congress to send weapons to Israel and Kamala saying that she supports continuing to send more weapons. Everything else is just responding to your bullshit allegations.
And my criticism of you is that you just PRETEND to care about Gaza so you can find reasons to get leftists to exclude themselves from choosing the president so that the right wins and everything gets WORSE in Gaza and rich idiots in the USA sit happily unaffected.
That you pretend to dislike Trump, but can't bring yourself to say more than 10% of what you say against him, and it'll be vague and not on any of the real issues and 90% of what you say will be both sidesing it and acting like the Democrats are worse than the Republicans.
And I've addressed your criticism like a dozen times already. You can't address mine once, because it's correct.
No you didn't, not once, and your criticism "I'm worried that they don't mean what they say so I'm gonna make pretend that they love war" is like a drop in the ocean compared to the evils a trump presidency would inflict on the world.
Really, not once have I explained to you why I spend more time on here talking about Kamala than Trump? Not once?
No, they mean what they say, they explicitly support unconditional arms shipments to Israel and constantly reaffirm that it "has the right to defend itself." Your side is the one that claims they're lying and secretly support Palestine, against all the evidence and all their statements.
Kamala Harris doesn't support a ceasefire in secret, she calls for it openly, meanwhile Donald Trump, the only other person who could become president, phones up Netanyahu to tell him to reject Biden's ceasefire plan.
It's very clear. Your attempt to muddy the waters is just doing Trump's will. You occasionally claim not to support Trump, but all you ever talk about is how evil Harris is and you can barely scrape a sentence together every ten comments or so mildly conceding that Trump isn't perfect.
Still didn't addressa single point I made, because you can't.
Oh yes of course, because everything you said was fair, balanced, non-misleading and good advice for people who care.
Yes, it was, unlike what you said.
Do you even acknowledge the fact that Biden bypassed congress to send more weapons to Israel? Yes or no.
That was sarcasm.
So you even acknowledge that Biden negotiated a ceasefire deal that Trump phoned his pal Netanyahu to tell him to reject?
Do you even acknowledge that Trump called himself the best King of Israel?
Do you acknowledge that Trump promised to set the military on left wingers in the USA?
Do you acknowledge that Trump is a 34 time concocted felon?
Do you acknowledge that it is the republicans who openly call for Israel to "finish the job" in Gaza?
Do you acknowledge that Trump would be much worse for Palestine than Kamala?
Probably you'll ignore most if not all of that and dig up something that isn't really Kamala's fault. That's what you always do. Every time. Just like Trump wants you to. You're his servant, whatever you tell yourself and others about your independence. You're not. You're just selling his lines.
Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. That is all true and all on Trump, except for the first which is also on Netanyahu, since he's his own person and doesn't have to do whatever Trump tells him to, but still demonstrates that Trump would be awful.
Now that I answered all of your questions, answer mine. You won't because you can't. The reason I can answer yours and you can't answer mine is because my beliefs are based on reality and yours are just fantasy based around whatever makes your team look good.
Yeah, Biden isn't perfect and didn't always do the best he could, including on Israel. Did I ever say he was a great president? No. But he's a far, far, far better president than Trump was, and Harris would be a far, far better president than Trump would be, especially on the issue of Gaza.
Well, it took 20 comments of you deflecting with ad hominem and baseless accusations, but you finally answered the question 👏👏👏
I swear, you waste so much time with this pointless, unproductive bullshit that it's impossible to discuss anything with you.
It isn't the win you seem to think. Few people who support Kamala for president think that she has a hope of creating world peace of that America will become even slightly socialist, but it'd get a tiny bit less shit with her and a shed load more shit with Trump, and those are the only two people who could possibly become the next president.
So if you care even a little bit about the people of Gaza, you should vote for Harris.
It's just that when you keep repeating republican talking points, I like to provide a bit of balance.
By the way, I'm not forcing you to engage with me.
I haven't said any "Republican talking points," unless in their double-talk on the issue they happened to land on something similar to what I said. If so, I'm unaware of it, and they obviously don't mean it since they contradict themselves all the time. At that point, virtually any statement about anything could be called a "Republican talking point."
I of course will not be voting for Harris since genocide is a red line and unlike Biden, when I draw a red line I actually mean it. And I do not subscribe to the ideology of lesser-evilism, so I do not feel compelled at all to pick between two candidates who are both completely awful and unacceptable.
Lol. You claim to not have said any republican talking points, then right after that you spend a paragraph on the biggest one for leftwing contexts!
Really? Do Republicans talk about rejecting the ideology of lesser-evilism? Pretty sure they rely on it the same way the Demorcrats do to make people fall in line with their shitty candidate. I don't see why they'd want to undercut their support and lose every hesitant Trump voter. Pretty sure you've just decided that any and all criticism that can ever be applied to Biden or Harris is a "Republican talking point" but that doesn't make it at all true.
Which part of "convince left wing voters not to vote for Kamala Harris" do you think isn't an absolutely key Republican strategy?
So we're back to this idea that there is fundamentally no way for me to hold my position or defend it without you calling it bad faith and accusing me of being a secret Republican, regardless of anything I say or don't say. Any disagreement, any criticism of Harris or Biden whatsoever, is a "Republican talking point," and I'm expected to craft this completely delusional worldview where I ignore all their faults rather than acknowledging reality.
Completely ridiculous.
Lol no, it's not that you said a tiny thing criticism of Harris, it's the pages and pages over days and days and weeks and weeks of criticism of Harris and occasional mild acceptance that Trump isn't perfect, always without detail or ire, and only where pushed, that's the Republican suppress-the-left-wing-vote talking points.