this post was submitted on 30 Oct 2024
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630
Sweden, Norway rethink plans for cashless societies over fears that fully digital payment systems would leave them vulnerable to Russian security threats (www.theguardian.com)
submitted 3 weeks ago by [email protected] to c/[email protected]
149 comments fedilink hide all child comments
 

cross-posted from: https://feddit.org/post/4262252

A combination of good high-speed internet coverage, high digital literacy rates, large rural populations and fast-growing fintech industries had put the Nordic neighbours on a fast track to a future without cash.

[...]

But Russia’s invasion of Ukraine in 2022 and a subsequent rise in cross-border hybrid warfare and cyber-attacks blamed on pro-Russia groups have prompted a rethink.

[...]

The Swedish government has since completely overhauled its defence and preparedness strategy, joining Nato, starting a new form of national service and reactivating its psychological defence agency to combat disinformation from Russia and other adversaries. Norway has tightened controls on its previously porous border with Russia.

[...]

[Norway's] justice and public security ministry said it “recommends everyone keep some cash on hand due to the vulnerabilities of digital payment solutions to cyber-attacks”. It said the government took preparedness seriously “given the increasing global instability with war, digital threats, and climate change. As a result, they’ve ensured that the right to pay with cash is strengthened”.

[...]

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[–] [email protected] 6 points 3 weeks ago (2 children)

GNU Taler to the rescue!

The netherlands are already looking into it: https://www.ngi.eu/ngi-projects/ngi-taler/

The project could be used via paper trail, as far as I understand it.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

Taler e-money is issued with a validity period. One month before the expiration date, you wallet should automatically exchange any digital cash that is about to expire for new digital cash with an extended validity period.

Haha no, thanks. I really don't understand why Stallman stands behind dystopian statist money.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 3 weeks ago (2 children)

I think the idea was that you can't hoard anything, and stealing or reusing is harder. But it does make the central management way more powerful than it should be. But it's normal bank standard.

What do you mean with "dystopian statist money"?

[–] [email protected] 3 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

Since when keeping the money you earned is "hoarding" and a bad thing?

I think money with expiration period that exists to prevent people from having savings is very dystopian, I don't feel like there is something to explain.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

For the individual saving is something very good. For the economy, however, a money hoarder is dead weight. It's why inflation won't ever completely go away, because it discourages hoarding (investing/bringing it to the bank can counteract this, that's why I didn't call it saving the second and third time)

It really depends who the issuer of the certificates (wallets) is. The funds get automatically transferred and won't be lost, it's "just" a privacy problem (plus the issuer will probably be able to interfere).

So the idea isn't that dystopian, but it very much depends on the implementation.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

In the conflict of interest of individuals vs. "the economy" I'm on the side of individuals, sorry.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 3 weeks ago

I'm with you on that.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

If he doesn't like hoarding, why doesn't it just inflate?

[–] [email protected] 2 points 3 weeks ago

I think the reason for this implementation is more the theft prevention. This sounds very mich like certificates to me

[–] [email protected] 2 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

Woot! It's been a while since I looked into Taler, but I've long held that we should be using it or something like it for digital transactions. I'd love a browser extension that compensates creators for removing ads, for example, and I think this would be a fantastic way to do it. But having it at a national level is even better!

[–] [email protected] 2 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

Yeah, I think so too. It should replace bank transactions completely.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 3 weeks ago

I hope someone posts here when/if they decide to adopt it, because I'd love to hear more details about it.