this post was submitted on 03 Nov 2024
-32 points (18.0% liked)
PC Gaming
8784 readers
357 users here now
For PC gaming news and discussion. PCGamingWiki
Rules:
- Be Respectful.
- No Spam or Porn.
- No Advertising.
- No Memes.
- No Tech Support.
- No questions about buying/building computers.
- No game suggestions, friend requests, surveys, or begging.
- No Let's Plays, streams, highlight reels/montages, random videos or shorts.
- No off-topic posts/comments, within reason.
- Use the original source, no clickbait titles, no duplicates. (Submissions should be from the original source if possible, unless from paywalled or non-english sources. If the title is clickbait or lacks context you may lightly edit the title.)
founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
Drag wants a refund because the game doesn't allow gender customisation. Drag bought the game because it's a Dungeons and Dragons game. D&D is supposed to have good character customisation. Drag doesn't like CRPGs without gender select. Drag is trans and AMAB. Drag spent 18 years forced to live as a man, and isn't interested in spending any more time like that. Drag is absolutely fine if a game has a male protagonist you can't customise. The Master Chief is fine. Geralt is fine. But when drag is supposed to create a character and put part of dragself into the character, drag doesn't want to do that with a man.
Drag thinks that given it's a D&D game and a CRPG, there should have been a warning about limited gender options. Drag did read the game description that he/hims the Nameless One, but didn't read much into it because it's a 90s game, and old games are just like that. Morrowind does the same thing, and in fact NPCs will misgender you if you play a female character in the actual game. Drag assumed Torment would be like that, since the store page made a point of bragging about the customisability of the Nameless One. "Pick Your Path: Character creation is just the beginning. The Nameless One can change his class, alignment, and even gain new abilities based on your choices." Drag thought this would mean there would be customisability.
Steam disagreed, and said there's no legal defect in a game with this problem. Drag sees this as a symbolic issue, and would like the refund anyway. Again, please argue with drag's reasons for wanting a refund in reply to this comment and not in the rest of the thread.
Well, since you've invited us to argue...
The Nameless One is not much different from The Master Chief or Geralt. The game is telling the story of a specific character. In this case, that character is a man. The fact that it's based on D&D is kind of irrelevant; it sounds like you made an assumption that wasn't stated anywhere, and are now trying to finagle a refund far outside of the refund window as a result.
While I certainly understand and sympathize with not wanting to play a character that doesn't match your gender, it strikes me as kind of hypocritical to be okay with doing so for some games but not others. Personally I'd say, don't play it if you feel strongly about it, but it's not grounds for a refund.
Yeah, TNO is absolutely an individual character you happen to be in the shoes of.
Without spoiling anything, the game IS TNO's story.
If that doesn't interest you, best of luck in your refund request.
That being said, I've only gotten around to getting one tattoo in my life - The rune of torment.
Where's the character creation screen in Halo Combat Evolved? Where's the creation screen in the Witcher 3? Can you assign stats to the Master Chief? Can you decide Geralt's class?
Halo and The Witcher aren't roleplaying games, other than Halo Reach. So it's not the same.
The games clearly aren't the same, but the premise of Planescape: Torment is that the game is telling you a predefined story about a specific character. That character happens to have lived many, many unique lives. You aren't deciding who he is on a fundamental level, just what his skillset is right now, similar to spending ability points in Witcher. Unlike e.g. Baldur's Gate, where you are a Bhaalspawn but you get to decide the specifics, Torment's protagonist is largely predefined.
That's still not enough information to determine that gender customisation isn't in the game. Commander Shepard is a predefined character with a set story. The Courier and the Sole Survivor have defined stories. The choice to deny gender choice does not follow logically from anything you've said. Drag simply asks that the store page list the fact you are leaving unsaid: that gender is predefined. Gender is not personality, as Fallout and Mass Effect demonstrate.
Take it up with Steam, I guess. Ten seconds on Google could have answered the question before you bought the game. If you feel this strongly about it, maybe you should be checking for each game you buy before you buy them.
My human... I am unequivocally one hundred billion percent behind you with regards to who you are and how you present. With that said... it seems to me that expecting a crpg from the NINETIES to have character customization in line with today's social norms thirty ish years later kinda falls on you. Furthermore asking for a refund 8 months post purchase (where Steam's policy has ever been two WEEKS) after failing to research even at a base level... I think you just gotta kiss that eight bucks goodbye (or whatever it was at time of purchase).
Pokemon Red had gender selection in 1996. It was a standard feature in CRPGs at the time.
I've given a way to maybe get that refund, but I also want to say: You should just play it. Yeah, your party is pretty much set in stone in it, but it's arguably one of the best CRPG D&D games to exist. It's not like you're really gonna make a statement to the now defunct developer that made the game. Black Isle doesn't exist. Interplay doesn't exist.
But if you're dead set on needing the full custom character experience, may I suggest Temple of Elemental Evil? The story dramatically changes depending on if you are good or evil alignment and it's got one helluva an opening scene if you're evil.
CRPGs fundamentally ask the player to self insert into the player character, and drag will take psychic damage if drag self inserts into a man. Drag is perfectly happy to self insert into tragic stories like KOTOR and feel bad as part of a game's story. That's the same as watching a sad or scary movie, that's fine. And drag would even be willing to enjoy Torment's dysphoria if it were an intended part of the experience, and you're actually able to play the Nameless One as a dysphoric trans person. But gender dysphoria that isn't accounted for in the game's design doesn't lead to catharsis. That's just feeling bad with no purpose to it.
Drag isn't mad at the developer for this. As you say, the developer is dead, so there's no point being angry. Drag is angry at Steam for selling this game without a content warning. Drag is angry about false advertising. This should be a part of the store's interface, the same as age ratings, or the recent decision to force games to disclose kernel level anticheat.
It would only be false advertising if Steam said you could choose your gender when you can't, which they don't.
They said you can pick your path. It's not true. It shouldn't be in the features section.
It says nothing about Gender, and it specifically refers to 'his'. This perfectly describes what you can do, so it certainly belongs in the 'Features' section. It also doesn't mention Race or Species; I'd much rather play as a non-human, but I'm not winging about it, because nowhere did the game tell me I could play as a non-human. I'm not going to keep arguing with you about it, because clearly neither of us are making any headway.
Drag read some Reddit posts about why the Nameless One has to be a man. Some Redditor explained: It's because the Nameless One has canon romances with several women, and it would make no sense for a FEEEMALE player character to romance women!
Drag thinks this is dumb.