Hello users of Hexbear, we wanted to inform you that we are going to be locking the_dunk_tank and dredge_tank communities. We have created two new communities /c/gossip and /c/counterpropaganda to serve a similar but clearly distinct purpose than the dunk/dredge tanks.
Not only is the dunk tank a term that has racist origins, but also many posts there were almost no effort and often times requiring later edits to show how they weren't reactionary, ~~not useful with regard to developing rhetoric and furthering dialectical analysis of that which we dunk upon~~.
To that end, we wish posts of reactionaries to be placed in [email protected] along with an accompanying explanation (as simple or complex as desired) with the intent of countering the reactionary propaganda in the post body, as of now comments are not subject to the same ~~rhetorical rigor~~ rule.
For the posts ~~that are not "low-hanging fruit'~~ of notable people we ask that you use [email protected] .
These changes are mainly part of a continued effort to remove the racist and misogynistic elements from our community and grow.
Any moderators of the dunk tank or dredge tank that want to be a mod in the new communities let me know.
Any users with questions or comments please use this post, this change was made at the behest of the entire Hexbear mod and admin team. We will be looking for more moderators in an organized volunteer drive shortly, if you wish to submit an application you may send it to me via hexbear or matrix direct messages.
Use this post as a place for discussion to these changes. We will keep things as they are for 2 weeks and then reflect on the feedback, including this post: https://hexbear.net/post/3858346
As a personal addendum I am sorry if ~~the closing of the tanks~~ these changes removes a beloved space on the site and if you want to suggest a community to replace them you may do so at [email protected] or submit a mod application to take a more active role in shaping the site.
Sitewide or community changes come from proposals put forth from the mod team, discussed, and voted on by the mod team.
Any users wanting to suggest a community to replace the tanks, may do so at [email protected] current discussion is here https://hexbear.net/post/3858346 or submit a mod application to take a more active role in shaping the site.
You may also consider using [email protected] as a substitute for dunk/dredge tank posts as well
The mod statement can be found here: https://hexbear.net/comment/5613033
Application
What is your Hexbear username?
Do you have any preferred pronouns?
What are your thoughts on capitalism?
What are your thoughts on imperialism?
What are your thoughts on trans rights?
What are your thoughts on racial justice?
What do think about current and previous protests around the world?
What are your thoughts on Veganism and Animal Liberation?
Do you have any experience with other leftist online communities?
What did those experiences teach you?
What is your approach to moderation, and how do you work with teams?
How do you deal with online drama and people who try to start things for the sake of it?
What current comms would you be interested in moderating?
Do you have any ideas for community engagement?
What is your general time availability? (Time zone, amounts, common browsing times, etc)
Collected statements of mods in favor of this change:
“dunk culture” can be fun but it’s rarely constructive, gives off white cishet man vibes, and has the potential to shift closer to the reactionary reddit “snark”.
It promotes misanthropy and, depending on the post can serve as an outlet for “acceptable” bigotry by copy/pasting the most heinous takes without pushing back and sometimes without a CW.
We have all seen those toxic and reactionary opinions 200 million times, ultimately it is just getting really mad at other powerless people.
Counterpropaganda is where you can post Mike83829293’s takes. Posts require clear effort being made in countering the falsehoods of the original post, or furthering the discussion. What this effort looks like will be a dialogue between the users and mods.
Counterpropaganda posts cutting apart shitty Op-eds, MIC insider articles, journalistic stories, etc. are celebrated and encouraged, and will be separated from the shitpostier/chattier nature of the gossip community.
Gossip is the new place to post about people with power. The person being dunked on must be a public figure, and be paid to be a public figure.
The name gossip is because it makes the content seem deeply unserious, like the posts about Elon Musk, celebrities, journalists, all of the streamer infighting, YouTuber arguments, podcast guys, etc. Locking the dunk/dredge tanks will help with toning down the irony poisoning on this site esp from white people. it's such a white internet communist turn-off for me and it permeates this site. A lot of people have mentioned that there's a definite air of misogyny around the way the site is currently doing dunks, and calling it like it is, gossip, should prove to be not only a method of finding out problematic users, but also a more entertaining way of letting people talk about other public figures besides just Elon Musk and US political candidates
We absolutely need to be more vigilant about toxic behavior in these spaces, there's a non-zero amount of ironic bigotry that has slipped through the cracks to the point where I've independently had multiple different people mention it as a concern.
Dunk culture is along the lines of doing mutual self harm, like a smoking social club. You all go in and smoke together and encourage one another to keep smoking, and you feel a sense of community and a sense that what you're doing is cool and fun, like putting a poster over the hole in the wall instead of fixing the wall.
We want us to continue to be a fun shitposting forum. But there are tons of other kinds of shitposting. Remember "bad guy bit accounts" when we had like civility and neera_tanden and all those other bit accounts where they just posted and argued while larping as annoying liberals or chuds? We grew out of that, and I think the site is better for it. We still have bit accounts, but there's not really that kind of arguing in the comments anymore. We can grow out of this one too, and I think the site will also be better for it. We don't have to have a site culture defined by our flailing opposition to mainstream pop culture and politics, uselessly posted where nobody else will see it. This change has the potential to make HB a lot less toxic improve the quality of posts, we are assessing these changes over the next two weeks and will open the floor for discussion at that time.
Collected statements of mods against this change:
"dunk' culture" isn't inherently unhealthy for the site.
there are aspects of it that need to be cracked down on, and I don’t discount that some reformations to it will probably need to be made, but even after sitting on it for a bit I still think it's not the best idea to strangle the aspect out of the site.
It is not an inherently progressive move for the site culture to totally exclude it. I think a third space for it should exist, with the primary purpose of a space for 'dunk' content is mutual catharsis.
As a leftist, online and a bit offline, is a bit of a maddening experience. A 'dunk' space, even one filled with low hanging fruit, allows me to vent my anger and negative emotions off in a way that gives a shared space for it. It serves these little capsules of exasperation that keeps me from sort of overdosing on those emotion
I'm sorry, this is fucked. So really this is intended as a major intervention into site culture by the mod team in order to make the site less "white" and "cis"? By removing dunks? I'm sorry, some of you are absolutely huffing your own farts, and the total lack of transparency in rolling this out is very telling. It was completely unclear how removing these comms was going to make the site less chauvenistic, and now that I've finally heard the actual rationale, I'm floored.
Given the tank comms were some of the most active areas of the site and a major part of its culture from the beginning, it's clear that a significant portion of mod team regards the userbase here as undesirable and inimicable to the kind of site that they want this to be. You (collectively, not CARCOSA specifically) could come not even come to us straight with the reasoning for this and have tried to conceal the reasoning behind it.
As someone who has posted a lot in the tank comms, I'll just say it's nice to know how I'm regarded by the mod team. Not as a long-time valued member of the community, but a toxic Reddit debate bro that's shitting up your site. Good to know where I stand.
I initially regarded this as a poorly thought out decision that needed to be discussed in a comradely fashion. Now I see it as the opening salvo from an anonymous clique of moderators who would like to remake Hexbear in their image regardless of what anyone else thinks
This should be a separate post rather than being buried in here if you're serious about wanting community input on changing the whole fucking character of the community. And the mods who drafted it should consider putting their names on it if they're not too cowardly to say this shit to my face
Edit: They are, in fact, too cowardly
I'd also like to point out that any time some of us actually saw through this shit, we were harassed and even banned for pointing it out. I received my first ever comm ban for pointing out how the mods were unwilling to openly and honestly engage with questions about the motivations and intentions behind the implementation of the dunk tank's "rule 8." I was then harassed by a prolific mod of many comms and by regular users for it for several days. To their credit, Carcosa reversed the comm ban as soon as I pointed it out to them, but that nonsense comm ban was later used as one justification for a site temp ban. The moderator who harassed me is still a prolific poster because they're of course good friends with the mods.
This site has long had a big, big problem with the same thing most internet forums have a problem with at some point. The kinds of people who desire to be the moderator of an internet forum are also the biggest losers you can imagine, and they form disgusting little toxic cliques and do shit like this all day.
I lurked for a few (omg a few!) years on hexbear but the dunktank eventually got me to make an account. Oddly enough it was one of those random deep comment threads that went off into theory that convinced me. In the past few months I noticed a progressively more vocal group of wreckers posting. They seemed to have the mods blessing. The manufacturing of drama, accusations, hostility, projection, and demand for obedience has only gotten worse. It's a bit cult-like. I've encountered this situation in other leftist orgs and it usually meant a split was incoming. I've seen Hexbear shake ups but the mods typically sorted the drama out. This is different and feels deeply intolerant. I'm glad you, Regon, and PMYF are saying what a lot of people have been thinking but were afraid to say for fear of being banned.