this post was submitted on 05 Aug 2023
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What? Says who? This only exists in r/conservative echo chambers. You're free to say what you want but nobody has to listen.
The "prepared to fight to the death to defend it" is in reference to the "free speech" that the constitution protects. We literally had a war about it 300 years ago. You can't have it both ways.
I'm saying Trump it the leader of the Conservative party in America and you are saying he's not a true conservative. It's the definition of "no true Scotsman". Stating it's not doesn't actually change anything.
Trump was a life-long Democrat until he switched parties. He's not a Christian. His personality could hardly be described as "conservative" by anyone. Trump may win the GOP primary again, just because Democrats control the mass media, but he does not represent the voice of conservative Americans, even if we end up voting for him in the general election. He's a political anomaly, which is why he has a fanbase, but is also why he shouldn't be a factor in this conversation.
lol. "He does not represent the voice of conservative Americans. I mean, conservative Americans love him and want to vote for him and boo anybody who wants to run against him, especailly in Republican-party-controlled spaces, but that's all liberals' fault, no true conservative likes Trump."
also, weird to focus on religion, but: https://web.archive.org/web/20201024120658/https://religionnews.com/2020/10/23/exclusive-trump-confirmed-a-presbyterian-now-identifies-as-non-denominational-christian/
This is delusional. Fox news is the largest "news" organization in America by a wide margin.
Fox is centrist, but every other mass media outlet is far to the left of them. And Fox publishes whatever gets clicks, including Trump stories.
Fox is only centrist by American conservative standards. The positions they support are considered far-right by most of the developed world outside of the middle-east and china.
Perhaps — I have no idea about the rest of the world — but Fox serves an American audience, so that's the context in which it's appropriate to evaluate it.
As a conservative, when I look at the Fox News website, I typically think all of the following: A) these stories are notably well-balanced compared to the other mass media outlets, B) man, they publish some really stupid articles on this site, C) Why do the articles all have huge videos that are completely unrelated to the articles on top of them?, and D) Yikes, the comment section sure does feature some openly racist remarks sometimes.
But outside of Fox, in the US, there are generally two types of news organizations: large-and-leftist and tiny-and-conservative.
I believe it. What I'm saying is that from your insular experience you wouldn't realize that what you consider "centrist" is actually "far-right".
In reality the largest news organization in America is "far-right" with some smaller extremist-right orgs. What you consider "leftist" is actually "centrist" by developed-nation standards. You can go on calling it what ever you like but it has no basis in reality outside of conservative echo chambers.
That can be true or false. I neither know nor care. I'm sorry to be dismissive, and I don't mean to be rude. You're just trying to make a point that seems irrelevant to me. I'm sure it's meaningful to you, but it's not to me.
No, I get it. You are not going to let facts get in the way of your conclusions. You don't sound dismissive you seem uninformed. That's fine and on brand with the positions you've shared.
I understand that some citizens of various other countries see themselves as part of an interconnected global world, where countries are fungible. And to be fair, a few Americans think that too. But in reality the US is far removed from all other countries, and we're blessed with being the greatest country possible, so a foreign perspective really doesn't impact us at all.
So you're right to say I'm uninformed — indeed we all are, somewhat, depending on the holes in our areas of focus — but you're wrong to say my conclusions are not based on facts. Because my conclusions are entirely factual within the context of the US.
If I'm incorrect outside of that context, well okay, I'll take your word on that. But so? It just seems like such an irrelevant point to make.
By what metric? Name one metric that US is number one in other than defense spending.
You cannot back up a single thing you say; all you offer are personal anecdotes. I guess your point would be that you're not informed enough to know the difference? That doesn't make you correct it makes you ignorant. And that's fine, not everyone can be informed, just don't pretend that you are.
I'm cracking up that you're now downvoting my comments after writing:
Feeling sanctimonious, yet?
Please continue dazzling me with you personal anecdotes from the butt-crack of America.
Ha, it's not fascist to click downvote. You wrote something I believed to be false, so I downvoted. If it really hurts your feelings I can take it back. I do enjoy mutually respectful debate. I don't think a downvote is all that disrespectful, and I also don't think we're having much of a debate. (What's the topic exactly?)
By a ton of metrics, but a few that come to mind off the top of my head:
You didn't list a single thing America is #1 in. Is there a single thing other than defense spending?
All of your "metrics" are either not true or not metrics. That is amazing.
This interaction is done. You're obviously not a fan of the US, and if you don't live here anyway then you have every right not to be. It's no skin off my back. I wish you all the best. See ya around.
I'm just asking for facts not biased nationalism. I'm not sure what I expected.
Here's the thing: I'm tired and headed to sleep. This has been a long and meandering conversation full of disagreements, with no real point. It's a bit exhausting. You're asking me about a topic that has been written about extensively in multiple books and articles. You can look up "American Exceptionalism" if you really want researched facts with academic citations. I was just giving you my honest thoughts, as a rather sleepy individual. I'm sorry those thoughts weren't up to snuff for you.
My point was that America is not number one in anything. It doesn't mean it's a bad place to live it's just delusional to think it's the "greatest" by any measurable metric. Research "nationalism" if you need more information.
I know what nationalism is, thank you. I also know what American Exceptionalism is, and it's a well established doctrine, well rooted in fact. I might have failed to explain it well, or maybe you just didn't want to question your preconceived beliefs. Either way, American Exceptionalism is the real deal, and no amount of bickering over it could change my mind. Thank you, though, for sharing your perspective with me.
I'm sure you can list one thing America is number one at? Its such a firm belief you hold you must know one thing, right?
Or is your opinion just entirely based on emotion?
It's a confluence of many factors, some of which I already listed, and instead of accepting and seeking knowledge, you rejected my explanation. I'm done replying to you here. Take care.
Your position is that America is "the greatest country possible" so the political spectrum used by the rest of the developed world is not relevant to us. We went through this exercise to illustrate that America actually doesn't lead the world in anything except defense spending and mass shootings.
So to bring it back full-circle, before you sent us down a tangent about your nationalism-
The largest news organization in America, Fox News, is far-right. What you consider "far-left" is considered centrist to right-leaning in the rest of the developed world. America is not "so great" that we can't consider these classifications because America doesn't actually lead the world in anything other than death.
Lol, this person has to be a troll or completely delusional.