this post was submitted on 19 Jun 2023
151 points (100.0% liked)
World News
22085 readers
120 users here now
Breaking news from around the world.
News that is American but has an international facet may also be posted here.
Guidelines for submissions:
- Where possible, post the original source of information.
- If there is a paywall, you can use alternative sources or provide an archive.today, 12ft.io, etc. link in the body.
- Do not editorialize titles. Preserve the original title when possible; edits for clarity are fine.
- Do not post ragebait or shock stories. These will be removed.
- Do not post tabloid or blogspam stories. These will be removed.
- Social media should be a source of last resort.
These guidelines will be enforced on a know-it-when-I-see-it basis.
For US News, see the US News community.
This community's icon was made by Aaron Schneider, under the CC-BY-NC-SA 4.0 license.
founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
Now they think it? Nice, how about back when they invaded a country who was sitting there peacefully for no f’ing reason?
How can they just barely begin to understand this. I know the propaganda machine goes hard but not that hard
It's easy to be skeptical of propaganda from the outside looking in, but once your immersed in it then it can be difficult to parse out reality from fiction.
Case in point look at shockingly large percentage of americans, many even from the north, who will argue the civil war was a matter of states rights. Hell the US went to war against Iraq and it initially had strong support because we were still reeling from 9/11.
It's important to always keep in mind that NOBODY is immune to propoganda or group think, nobody is above the narrative, and the people who think they are tend to be particularly vulnerable.
Propaganda is pretty effective no matter where you are in the world. It's why many soldiers can do horrible shit to civilians in occupied territory and only later realize that they did something terrible. Here's hoping we start hearing about Russian mutinies from more soldiers with similar realizations.
I have a Russian friend and no matter what, i can't make him understand he is believing in propaganda. He says he wouldn't want to betray his whole family. I hope someday he understands.
I know exactly what you mean. I live since 10 years in #China and it is unbelievable what people think when they have no access to independent news. Even if they got access after some time, they're not going to believe it, because it's so different from what they got thought the reality is.
History has been teaching us painfully often how quick people give up their individual believes for the sake of a centralised propaganda machine. It'd be very dangerous to think we are immune to it imho.
Certainly explains the push for de-centralized social media.
I legit started studying social psychology to understand this and similar phenomena. It's going slow but I hope to have a working understanding in a few years.
I mean, propaganda doesn't need to be 100% effective to be damaging.
Look at the world's oldest propaganda medium, religion.
I mean... the US does that...
And we should always call them out on it, too.
@bear_delune A lot of countries have done that, and it's always been a crime.
There's documentaries about how rampant the propaganda is, that people get imprisoned and killed if they avoid service, and that there are rituals in the Russian military where soldiers steal money and food from other "platoons" just to survive. Not even starting to describe all different kinds of hazing going on there.
What I'm saying is, what they do is wrong and there should be more critical thinking and more uproar in the Russian society, but considering how jaded ppl out there are to government fuckery and the precarious circumstances, the soldiers are the last ones to blame.
Let's stick to the all encompassing Fuck Putin.
Ok, I agree, and I know it’s all Putin’s fault. However:
I was a soldier in the military long ago. I made a mental note of who around me who would do whatever they were told, no matter how bad it would be (and I asked them directly, not just my guessing) and those like me who would have a limit and decide to say no at some point. It was about 50/50.
Soldiers aren’t robots, even if commanders wish they were. They are humans and should try to be humane and thoughtful. If the war you’re sent to fight doesn’t make any sense, ask questions and demand good answers. If it’s all shit, don’t do it.
Who do you think gets captured and tossed into POW camps? This guy's just some rank & file grunt who was either stupid enough to volunteer or unlucky enough to get drafted. In either case, I find it hard to blame him for being disillusioned after getting shipped off into a meatgrinder and realizing that reality didn't measure up to the state propaganda.
Hopefully these sadsacks manage to take something home from the experience that can stop the next war from happening before it wastes more young lives.
I can remember a couple decades ago I was talking to my grandmother and she said that for the most part people trusted the gov't. Until my dad's friends started coming back from Vietnam and spitting truth. I hope enough Russians go back and spread the word, but I worry that not enough will be alive to even go back.