this post was submitted on 21 Aug 2023
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You can't say "we" on a fediverse system, because the post is gonna be seen by everyone everywhere. I'm not on sh.itjust.works, I'm viewing your post on kbin, and it's also gonna be seen on all the other lemmy servers that are federated with yours.
They posted this on !main.
That's my point exactly. Their title asks "Does anyone know why we’re defederated from beehaw?" but the majority of people reading this post will be on instances that AREN'T defederated with beehaw. The post needs to say "Does anyone know why sh.itjust.works is defederated from beehaw?"
I mean it doesn't take much critical thinking to realize defederation is per instance, so mayyybbbeee they're talking about the instance they're both part of and posting in.
It takes two seconds to mention the instance when talking about an instance specific topic.
Stop trying to discourage suggestions to improve clarity.
you could also stop browsing other instances main?
Takes 1 second to think about it, even less time
I don't browse other instances' main, they show up under All together from any federated instance on kbin.
Ok then understand when you view all instances, you might just see another instance
"Don't spend two seconds wording something clearly when publicly posting because everyone else can just figure out what you meant by inferring all of the context instead."
Let's use an example from Reddit, just to eliminate the extra complication of instances.
Let's say I'm on /r/neutralnews on Reddit and I ask, "Does anyone know why HuffPost links aren't allowed?" Then imagine someone browsing /r/all sees the title then jumps in and comments, "But they are allowed, I just posted a HuffPost article yesterday!" The first poster is talking about something specific to the sub, whereas the second assumed they were talking about sitewide reddit rules. Should all posts discussing subreddit rules always include the subreddit name? That's ridiculous, it's quite obvious from context that it's talking about sub rules.
Now if we add in the complexity of instances on Lemmy, this post was made to a community that's specifically intended for discussing this instance. It's the
maincommunity for the sh.itjust.works instance, which is precisely where discussion about the instance itself should reside.The root of the problem is addressed in this post where kbin apparently doesn't show enough information about the community and instance it's pulling. However, it still should have been obvious that, since it's a "main" community, it's talking about that particular instance. If you looked at the actual link this post is referring to, it also mentions the sh.itjust.works community. So I see two failures here:
The first totally isn't your fault, but the second doesn't imply that everyone else should include unnecessary data like the instance name in a post title that's made to a community that's specific to that instance.
I'm seeing this from just the All page on kbin. That's where I find other communities I may want to join.
I have not left my instance to see this post.
Yet this is a post from another instance yes?
So maybe this is where that critical thinking comes in, if you set out to view other instances, don't be afraid if you just happen upon other instances
I didn't set out to view other instances. The default view of kbin is the All page. It was on page 1, immediately join opening. Should I avoid logging in?
It's crazy how annoyed you are about the federated experience while on a federated site. Not everyone is going to conform to how you/your instance wants to operate.
"Didn't set out to view other instances"
"browsed the all page"
What. What'd you think you'd find there?
do agree with the last point, not everyone is gonna change to fit YOUR needs
It's the landing page of Kbin by default. I cannot change it.
I don't think I've even advocated for the person to specifically include the instances in post titles; just that identifying it is helpful when asked. Instead, dude above went off calling people functionally dumb for asking.
that's the argument for that asking people posting to the community about sh.itjust.works to state specifically that they are talking about sh.itjust.works is silly. why is your convenience in regards to an idiosynchrocy with your chosen platform more important than everyone elses community experience?
it's crazy how annoyed you are about the federated experience while on a federated site. not everyone is going to conform to how you / your instance wants to operate
That isn't federated experience tho. No one on a closed platform asks for identification of where stuff was posted from; by default, it's the closed platform. That isn't how federation works; the number of sources/groups is virtually endless.
But nah, go on. Foster more good-will by getting upset at others for asking the context of a post on federated sites. Clearly y'all are a welcoming bunch.
What are you talking about? The context is the community the post is posted into. The federated experience is that you explore any posts, threads, or communities from any instance. If I have a community called [email protected], do you want me to post "New table-top news!" in every single post title just to make it clear? This post was posted to a community for discussing sh.itjust.works. If your app isn't showing you that information, that's a bug, not an issue with posters. Imagine if every post didn't show what community it was from, what poster posted it, or what it was in response to, but only if you used a particular app. Would you get huffy at other users for not copy and pasting every comment they were replying to into their own comment because you needed to ask for the context and provenance from every user directly? I'm sorry if the people in the community for discussing sh.itjust.works are a little annoyed that there's a huge controversy at a large number of users from one particular instance not knowing it wsa for discussing sh.itjust.works because kbin doesn't show what communities posts come from. But it's a very active community, and putting "In regards to sh.itjust.works:" in every title would be like if you wanted to required every post to [email protected] be labeld "[News]"
This is a Kbin problem with not showing the instance name for communities and users. The solution is for kbin to fix it's UI not for users to add unnecessary information to their post titles.
I suggest you make a post in the Kbin meta magazine if this bothers you instead of complaining to people who did nothing wrong.
Pretty much everyone is seeing it just by looking at their instance's homepage, they're not browsing on sh.itjust.works's page. If you post on your instance's main page, then EVERYONE on EVERY instance will see it on THEIR instance's homepage too. That's how federation works.
So, in addition to posting in a community specific page I should also clarify for idiots who don't know how the technology they're using or who can't take a moment and think for themselves about what's flashing on their screens?
You mean if youre viewing all? Then yeah you might get all posts (no friggin way). This is where that critical thinking comes in
You're suggesting that every single post to this community mentions the instance name?
How did you get 'every post ever' from 'instance specific topic'?
Because this community is the "Home of the sh.itjust.works instance".
This is the community for discussing sh.itjust.works. that's what this whole ass community is
Every post in this community is an instance specific topic. That's the point of the community.
Did you read the other three replies saying the same thing and think 'oh boy, I can get in on this action'?
Other 2, and yes. You apparently haven't though.
They posted on the community for discussing the server they're on. There's some onus on you to look at what communities someone is posting to
I posted it in the community for sh.itjust.works
It's further exacerbated if you're using apps that don't immediately show the instance a post is from
Even so, the image that this post is discussing specifically mentions the sh.itjust.works instance. So even if your app sucks, the linked post gives you all the context you need to understand that this is specifically discussing the sh.itjust.works instance.
That's a problem with the app not with the OP's post.
The majority of people are reading this either from Lemmy's UI, or from some app for Lemmy, both of which clearly show which community+instance this was posted to.
Ask kbin devs to fix their UI and do the same.
There appears to be some miscommunication between instances in this thread regarding how posts appear from other communities. I think many arguments are stemming from this, so to clear things up:
It is trivial for users on sh.itjust.works to see what is posted where. It is less obvious for kbin.social users to do the same. Personally, I think it's a kbin issue for not surfacing enough post information.
That's pretty awful. Can you at least get the instance if you hover over "main"?
Yes on desktop, no on mobile (as mentioned already).
On mobile, you need to click into post to see. It's one of my biggest annoyances with kbin.
This is more of a problem about English making no distinction between "we" (us including you) and "we" (us excluding you)
That's related, but it should still be pretty clear from context.
If I say, "the current President doesn't represent us," I'm obviously not talking about the whole world, or even the whole country, but the specific subgroup that I'm a part of (i.e. maybe my demographic, political party, etc). If I say, "we need to take responsibility for the state of the planet," I'm talking about everyone in the whole world, not just me and my specific demographic or political party.
It would be a lot clearer if we had better words in English, but it is usually quite clear from context. In this case, this is posted to the sh.itjust.works' "main" community, and the post specifically mentions sh.itjust.works in the image that's linked. It's pretty clear it's talking specifically about the sh.itjust.works instance.
The same mistake could be made, since OP assumed the audience is the SIJW instance, thus using inclusive we, when actually its the whole federation, the exclusive we could have been used.
Yup. Im reading this on kbin too, and my initial reaction was “Beehaw is defederated from kbin? When did that happen?!?”
Who pooped in your éclair?
Yeah, really wish people would mention their instance, it's more of a guessing game trying to work out what people they're actually referring to