this post was submitted on 28 Aug 2023
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Ngl I’m pretty terminally online and spend an unhealthy amount of time reading about politics (both fringe and otherwise) but I have almost no clue what your comment is saying lol
So you can blame it on horseshoe theory, or right wingers posing as lefties in order to disincentivize the get out the vote campaigns, or simple trolling by otherwise disinterested people, but there’s a phenomenon that seems to be getting more prevalent - on lemmy in particular but also our there in social space.
It’s folks who will unironically brand Bernie Sanders as a capitalist reactionary while praising Putin as an anti-capitalist hero standing up against imperialism. The dialog is actually remarkably close to what we saw in the early days of the_donald, where the over the top jokes about the trump train and the line transformed via some kind of sea change into what was considered serious dialog.
There was an actual fracturing off of some elements of the relatively far left (think pacifica radio not the weathermen) with the trump-russia thing and that might have its own causality to explore, but I don’t think that does anything but provide a nucleus for the rest to organize around.
who did that? where? i can't find it.
You can claim to be as terminally online as you want but never in the heat death of the universe will you see even 1/100th of the internet
This is true lol
Oh my god lol, am I so terminally online I've lost the ability to communicate? Ffffff
Do you wanna be terminally online about politics together? 🤣
Ha it’s all good. Jokes aside can you break it down for me? Very curious now
So OP is posting about Matt Taibbi, who is a writer who shills for this Centrism or "both parties bad" viewpoint. These talking points are often very subtle right-wing strategies. Matt is there to launder the right wing talking points of others and make them seem acceptable to US Liberals.
The OP's username being "Jimmy Dore is a Leftist" is yet another politically helpful lie. Jimmy Dore had this same centrist strategy, but now it's impossible for anyone to deny he's not just a reavtionary.
And OP is also simping for Cornel West, another reactionary who is at the center of the "No Labels" party. This party is yet another piece of the centrist myth. And yet it's funded by evil billionaires like Harlan Crow, who gives money to Clarence Thomas.
These centrists not only hide their power level that is lie about their true political prescriptions, they are often there solely to fight the Democrats rather than the Republicans - an intentional spoiler third party. In the first past the post system, we are vulnerable to people voting this way rather than using gsme theory to deduce the only proper vote is for one of those two candidates.
And this is all there to put a smudge on the reputation of Democrats. Because Republicans are never purists - they want to win, not be right.
And Democrats do have problems worth discussing, but the game theory of the Presidential vote is this: any vote against Biden is a vote for Trump.
So voting for Biden is Harm Reduction. His wins can delay fascism from taking over the US in 2025.
This really shines light on that user's motives. I banned that user because of being a really sus bot, but this meme will not be removed as no rules have been broken. Where I can learn more about the subject?
No Labels Party took $130k from Harlan Crow
What is Matt Taibbi Doing? (2021)
LA Times: Does 'Centrism' Mean Anything?
MSNBC: Cornel West 'leftist' with Right wing DNA (Opinion / Analysis)
Progressives Wish Cornel West Wasn't Running
Exactly the kind of stuff I was looking for. Thank you.
Thank you! Gotta add these to my Instapaper and read later with my ebook reader :)
Instapaper? Is this some new magic I've not heard of?
this only shines a light on the motives of the screed-writing rhetorician
Fascinating and the most compelling argument that I have heard to date for the unsavoury practice of strategic voting.
don't be taken in by rhetoricians.
Don't be taken in by... People who make good arguments?
good-sounding arguments are not the same as good, sound arguments.
Gotta say I hate that. I get these shills are playing the long game, but in the end, this is the same bullshit that got us in this predicament in the first place - vote for one because the other is worse!! We will never progress with that hanging over our heads.
Yeah, I despise the two-party system. Protest voting won't magically give us the democracy we deserve. It has to be done on a small scale, local and state level. It's gotta be organized. Governors are particularly invulnerable to this two-party bullshit, and that is I believe why a few states have Ranked Choice Voting now.
And actually voters aren't to blame. The founding fathers understood what they were doing to our democracy, and them saying a two party system must not be established was probably more of a dogwhistle that it should be done immediately because it will work.
some of the founders were outspoken in their support of a two-party system. you don't seem to know as much as you pretend.
edit: or you're lying.
I'll stop beating around the bush and say I think George Washington was lying. A few of our founding fathers had principles, but the most powerful of them were actually just reactionary elites using any narrative for power. So when he says don't form a two party system, I think if he had the chance he would have done it himself.
Which is horrifying recklessness on the part of Democrats. "Be happy with 'not fascist' because that's the best we're willing to do" only has to fail once.
Appreciate it!
cornel west has said he's running to defeat trump, and attacked him in the sean hannity interview. whatever your bias is, it doesn't align with the facts.
Cornel west is lying, not me.
he attacked trump and associated him with the klan in his hannity interview this summer. you just don't know the facts.
Okay, I have more to learn.
i dont think matt is talking to liberals at all: he's talking to leftists.
this is just a lie.
cornel west is a leftist and he's running for the green party nomination.
Oh, you're right. No Labels hasn't chosen a candidate and Cornel West is indeed vying for the green party ticket.
no he doesn't
that's a different perspective entirely.
i deny it. i think he's a dummy, maybe politically illiterate, but he's not a reactionary.
the fact you would use this ACTUALLY FASCIST terminology makes me suspect you are either trying to paint them as fascists or are one yourself.
Fascists would not scold liberals, because liberals are permissive of fascism.
true
false
"Anyone who calls me out for using a dog whistle must be a dog."
nazi hunting is a hobby of mine. you should see my podcast subscriptions.
wrong. only a vote for trump is a vote for trump. a vote for anyone else is a vote against trump.
Third parties in our system are spoilers. Even more so when the "No Labels" party is funded by evil billionaires with the explicit goal of being a spoiler third party.
so did the greens spoil the 2020 election? the 2008? 1992?
spoilers are a lie.
Third party spoiler effect may have played a role in 2016, and almost certainly played a roll in 2000, and 1992.
i know you're wrong about 2000 and 1992
gore WON florida. the supreme court coronated bush.
and fivethirtyeight said that there was no spoiler in 1992.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1992_United_States_presidential_election#Analysis
you don't know what harm reduction OR fascism is.
You wanna help me out?
harm reduction is accepting that a fascist is going to win whether they are democrat or republican and doing what you can to mitigate the harm that will be done by the current system.
fascism is a strictly stratified society with every institution serving the interest of the state. democrats and republicans are both fascist parties.
Can you actually justify that claim? How are Democrats fascist? A definition broad enough to include American Democrats as fascist will presumably include just about ever major party in every western democracy.
just wait til you discover mussolini.
Mussolini wasn't an American Democrat, he was an Italian fascist.
correct. he pioneered uniting government and corporations.