136
this post was submitted on 22 Jun 2023
136 points (99.3% liked)
Star Trek
10608 readers
107 users here now
r/startrek: The Next Generation
Star Trek news and discussion. No slash fic...
Maybe a little slash fic.
New to Star Trek and wondering where to start?
Rules
1 Be constructive
All posts/comments must be thoughtful and balanced.
2 Be welcoming
It is important that everyone from newbies to OG Trekkers feel welcome, no matter their gender, sexual orientation, religion or race.
3 Be truthful
All posts/comments must be factually accurate and verifiable. We are not a place for gossip, rumors, or manipulative or misleading content.
4 Be nice
If a polite way cannot be found to phrase what it is you want to say, don't say anything at all. Insulting or disparaging remarks about any human being are expressly not allowed.
5 Spoilers
Utilize the spoiler system for any and all spoilers relating to the most recently-aired episodes, as well as previews for upcoming episodes. There is no formal spoiler protection for episodes/films after they have been available for approximately one week.
6 Keep on-topic
All submissions must be directly about the Star Trek franchise (the shows, movies, books etc.). Off-topic discussions are welcome at c/quarks.
7 Meta
Questions and concerns about moderator actions should be brought forward via DM.
Upcoming Episodes
| Date | Episode | Title |
|---|---|---|
| 11-21 | LD 5x06 | "Of Gods and Angles" |
| 11-28 | LD 5x07 | "Fully Dilated" |
| 12-05 | LD 5x08 | "Upper Decks" |
| 12-12 | LD 5x09 | "Fissue Quest" |
| 12-19 | LD 5x10 | "The New Next Generation" |
In Production
Strange New Worlds (2025)
Section 31 (2025-01-24)
Starfleet Academy (TBA)
In Development
Untitled comedy series
Wondering where to stream a series? Check here.
founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
Other episodes did, and I hope we'll see more of that. Specifically, it's about Illyrian culture: Genetic modification is deeply ingrained, required in their ethics: "We don't terraform planets, that's disrespectful of nature, we transform ourselves", as heard previous season (I'm sure someone will fill in the episode number). As such the practice doesn't root in a desire for dominance or superiority, but gentleness towards the universe.
That is, the issue with the eugenics wars wasn't genetic manipulation itself, but that humanity was war-like and out for dominance and superiority. The augments' attitude of supremacy simply reflect cultural attitudes back then, they were not caused by genetic modifications, but enabled. (Alternatively: The bad idea of imbuing augments with such a sense was due to bonkers scientists influenced by cultural attitudes).
Or maybe more like entheogens: Drugs that kill one society are used responsibly and for benefit by others because they have cultural practices regulating them, rites (regulations) saying when and where and why they should be used.
If the federation ever gets around to legalising genetic manipulation having regulations written by Illyrians and Denobulans sounds like a very good idea.
What I can't get out of my head this morning is actually Bashir's plotline with his parents on DS9, because it captures what's so insidious about even "benevolent" genetic modification. He's not angry at them just because they broke the law, he's angry at them because they decided they didn't like who he was and chose to transform him into someone else, someone he feels is a different person. And this is actually the fundamental argument against a social program of gene management in real life; it allows society to police what types of bodies and what types of minds are "normal" and flattens species diversity and experience diversity in favor of whatever the norms say is "better". The danger isn't just the risk of Khan like supermen, its a moral argument against determining how people's bodies and minds are going to develop before they can even consent, even before they're born.
As strongly as I feel about this, I do think you could create a case for why what the Ilyrians do is meaningfully different, the "adapting to other planets rather than making them adapt to us" idea is interesting and complicated, but it felt extremely cursory in this ep
The tricky philosophical line here for me is - what are we allowed to say parents can't do in regards to what they see as improving their children's life? https://sopuli.xyz/comment/525354
is one comment I made, that I'll try not to repeat here, but will add to. Genetics is not destiny. However, before a person exists it's hard for me to see how adjusting that person is not liking who he was. To me, this is like saying you don't like your new car (when you don't have a car yet) and deciding to buy the SUV instead of the Pickup - and people saying you changed the car. This may be a weak analogy but the point is - Bashir didn't exist, he never "was" something else.
And what about schooling and other cultural influences? I would say we can make cases similar to yours about religion, about schooling, and more today. People are certainly changed from some ideal form of "what they might have been" - we're culturally a blank slate, something is going to fill that. We're fighting about laws that limit what people can be before they can consent right now in anti-trans laws in Florida, but somehow I feel like you might not be so pro bans in that case, even though it's basically the same argument - we shouldn't let parents decide to treat kids before the kids can legally consent (at 18) so we should just "let nature take its course".
I'm also stuck with the idea that society shouldn't "police what types of bodies and what types of minds are “normal” and flattens species diversity and experience diversity in favor of whatever the norms say is “better”" I thing that's bad from a government imposed stance, but from a personal choice stance you seem to be doing the same thing, you're just imposing variations rather than conformity. But why is one better imposed by the government than the other? I also feel like policing norms, and heck, creating norms, is kind of a definition of a society. We might not like the extremes, but if there are no norms or policing, you have a large collection of individuals and anarchy, not a society IMO.