this post was submitted on 13 Oct 2023
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Quebec really seems to want to be its own country rather than melding culture and language like the rest of Canada
Yeah, it's like a country within a country. The culture is quite different.
We do want to meld, but that implies that the ROC needs to meld as well, otherwise it's an erasure and not a union.
I think the issue is disagreement over that mixing. The (as you put it)RoC sees "province-sized Chinatown but french" and Quebec sees "we will not be diluted one iota".
As an immigrant, something I like about Canada is how regardless of where we came from we all make an effort to speak to each other in the common language so that we can learn and understand each other. And then there is Quebec sulking because we don't speak their language, instead of following everybody else.
I didn't lose my culture just because I use English as a vehicular language. I gained all sorts of stuff from other people, which I wouldn't have if I or they refused to speak the common language. So, please, Quebecois, do share your beautiful culture with us -- in the language we all understand.
My children speak my native language, but my grandchildren won't. That's how it works. Somehow millions of immigrants are expected to understand and accept this, but Francophones somehow feel special?
It really isn't. My culture, my traditions, my way of thinking doesn't automatically change when I switch to English or any other language. A language is nothing but a tool to communicate ideas, and a multiplicity of languages only serves as a barrier that stops people from understanding each other. I'm all for a universal language to facilitate the free interchange of ideas.
That rudeness is uncalled for. You can do better.
Yes, because they didn’t go anywhere[1]. They’re not immigrants[1]. How is that difference not obvious?
K, that’s just ignorance at this point.
[1] PS. Obviously they immigrated as colonizers at some point, but the language they’re being assimilated into isn’t First Nations. If it were, that’d would be a different story.
Neither did First Nations people, and I don't see the majority of Quebecois speaking any of those languages either. And thank goodness we don't have each municipality speaking their indigenous tongues -- it would be impossible to talk to each other!
So let's all be practical and discuss our differences and our commonalities in a common language, rather than constructing language ghettos around us out of fear.
Québécois are not asking First Nations people to forget their language, you are.
I'm not asking anybody to forget anything. I'm saying that speaking a common language is highly beneficial to communication, and thus should be promoted.
I'm also saying that it is hypocritical for people who expect immigrants to integrate, yet at the same time refuse to integrate themselves. Like it or not, English is the lingua franca since at least WW2, and even more so since the advent of the Internet.
You and I would not even be having this conversation if it wasn't for our ability to speak fluent English.
Thank you for your very civil response.
Earlier you said that it's okay for millions of immigrants to lose their language, but now you equate that to "your culture being erased". This means that in your mind culture erasure is fine as long as it only affects immigrants. But now you criticise me for being okay with losing my language? So which side of things are you on?
As I said earlier, I'm on the side that understands that language and culture are distinct, which is obviously true given that a person can learn multiple languages and retain the same knowledge, beliefs, customs, traditions, etc.
Have a great day, sir/madam.
The problem is its lopsided the ROC gets nothing out of knowing French but Quebecois get to participate in the international community by knowing English. Only way this well change is if America falls since they are the 1000lb gorilla in the global community.
I'd argue French is more useful in Europe than English.
English is not a ROC thing though, it's a global thing, in an online world. So sure, you can create your French-Canadian pockets on Reddit, Lemmy, QC guilds in MMO's, etc, but you constantly have to step outside of those areas to interact with the rest of the English speaking world.
And French is not a Quebec thing either.
The most spoken language in the world in Mandarin.
You have a very anglocentric view of the world.
Actually, the most spoken language in the world is English.
https://www.worlddata.info/languages/index.php
That's "mother tongue", not total speakers.
I don't really see much evidence of the "rest of Canada" wanting to meld culture and language. Other than french immersion schools and the occasional food truck serving up poutine there's not much of Quebec culture or French language that you'll find outside of Quebec.
If they don't protect what they have, a hundred years from now Canada will be solely an English speaking country and poutine will be covered in nacho cheese.
I mean, I don't have any stake in it one way or the other coming from BC but I understand why they feel protective.
Doesn't it seem like the stronghold mentality is somewhat self defeating, though? I'm also in BC and there's not much evidence of French culture around here, it's true. I'm more likely to encounter Tagalog or Mandarin than French, and would have more opportunity to speak those if learned, but not because those languages are indigenous to the area.