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I'm 100% for not tipping in USA. But the bastards that own the restaurants and company's won't pay these people what they deserve. Time for nationwide strike in the restaurant/food delivery industry imo.
The reason they won't pay is specifically because people tip.
Well, and people are willing to roll the dice and accept work where tipping is an essential part of their income.
Forced to. People are forced into these jobs...
Stop perpetuating the system by accepting that it's required to accept these positions.
When there is no social safety net, and you need money to live you can't afford to be picky.
That will never happen, because the truth is that these folks do make more from tips than they would from any sort of overall wage increase. Unfortunately, but not surprisingly, tip-receiving workers tend to favor the tipping system in my experience.
Then fuck tipping because it's a non legal added tax on my food. How about that?
You’re preaching to the choir; I’m just pointing out that expecting tip-receivers to strike to end tipping culture and secure higher base pay for themselves is a pipe dream.
then don't order out?
Or else what?
This is a major reason why I, personally, don't tip. Those who like working for tips need to understand that they are not entitled to tips.
Yeah, really tipping should be replaced by being partially paid on comission, not just a flat wage increase.
I never tip and hope that voting with my wallet will cause more people to realize that they should be fighting owners, not customers or employees.
Hopefully you never eat at the same place twice, either.
Or else what?
"That's a nice meal you have there. Be a shame if there were some bodily fluids in it."
I've worked in food service before. Committing felonies by tampering with food is exceedingly rare, and not something people tend to do just because they don't get tipped.
The only tampering I ever saw was when the owners visited and ran their mouths.
I watched my manager spit in chicken sandwiches at KFC when I was a young cook there. Imagine what I didn't see?
I think it's more common than you realize.
Did he at least have a reason?
He said he didn't like the guy.
Well, it's a reason, but not a good one.
Did you report them?
Because you saw 1 instance at 1 location from 1 person? Lol.
I love your blind faith in humanity, it's quite endearing.
So no?
What would be the point? My word vs a well liked managers word? That doesn't end well for this peon on multiple levels.
Not a risk I'd be willing to take.
Well, then you're paying the price.
And you may pay in a different way.
Indeed.
Hey, good principled stance... I guarantee literally every server, and I mean absolutely every one, thinks you're the asshole and they are 1000000% not thinking about the realities of the tipped industries when they see the bill with a zero percent tip.
Also, I kinda think you're the asshole if you're dumb enough to believe that you, the one you, is somehow going to change tipping culture in America by not tipping.
Is the job shortage this bad where people can't just go work elsewhere?
It can be exceedingly difficult to find a job for a lot of people, yes
Have you ever applied to a job? It can be an exhausting experience especially when you always have to do it after getting out of work from you current shitty job that exhausts you to the point that you would rather do anything else than think about work.
I've been working since i turned 14. I'm in my early 30s now. I've been through many jobs and never really had an issue finding work. It has a lot to do with the area of work, region, luck, time and fuck tons of charisma to make yourself stand out. I moved countries and counties. I've been through the gauntlet of retail, healthcare and freelancing / contracting. My perspective is skewed because of it, my question wasn't dismissive, I genuinely never had a downtime or could afford to be without a job for even a week. But I'm not from the States, I've got no idea what the market is like there, I can only speak for my experience on the other side.
Apologies if it looked disrespectful.
Not the person you replied to, but here's my story.
It took weeks for me to be able to get my first job. I would either "fail" those online tests to see if you're a "good fit" for the company or I would not do well in the interview. I finally got a job, but it involved working overnight.
My second job kinda just landed in my lap. A friend of mine let me know about a job opening at the place they worked at. I applied, interviewed, and got the job. (I suspect my friend talked with the person who decided to hire me, but I've never asked him to confirm.)
I was eventually let go from my second job. I spent a few weeks recovering from the shock of being let go. (I had what I think was an anxiety attack from it, and, since I didn't know what was going on at first, it only got worse as I started to get more anxious from being anxious.)
After I got better, I applied for my third job. I spent a few weeks applying to jobs but, again, kept failing the personality tests or the interviews. Eventually, I was able to get another job, though. I actually got it pretty easily because it was a similar position to my first job, just at a different company.
Yes "Nobody wants to work"
More like nobody wants to hire
I've been to restaurants with mandatory 20% tip included in the bill and let me tell you, I don't even know if I got service worthy of 10%. It seems to be more of a cultural problem though. Even when their salaries are covered, American restaurant service is pretty lackluster. Without the carrot on the stick, it doesn't seem like they're even willing to try.
Working in a restaurant is probably one of the most consistently hard jobs in the US. It takes like 3 times the amount of energy that the average office job does. I don't think you are getting bad service because the people that are serving you are just lazy, they certainly wouldn't be working in the food service industry if they were lazy.
As someone who's first job was washing dishes, I would argue it's more than 3 times if it's even a moderately busy restaurant. I have a cushy office job now and hands downs I still think waiters work insanely hard, especially because they're on their feet all day.
I've worked in restaurants too, mate. I get that it may be a lot of work, but the experience also let me know that the service I'm getting is usually pretty subpar. I don't mind tipping good waiters, but they are pretty rare outside of fine dining. Lazy waiters, like lazy employees in any other job, are always going to be a plague on their industry.
Why are lazy workers a plague on industries? What makes you take that framing and not another framing like the fact that many industries treat workers like shit and pay them shit?
Perhaps the problem is you expect great customer service from someone who is getting paid so little they can’t pay off any debt, afford any kind of housing that isn’t living with their parents or living in a shitbox with way too many roommates, afford good health insurance nor even really afford to feed themselves with healthy food.
Fundamentally WHY do you look at someone you perceive as not working hard and your kneejerk response is “they must have no reason for their behavior other than they are lazy” ? You are being extraordinarily intellectually lazy yourself to dig no deeper than “they look lazy” and to assume they don’t have good reasons.
If your worldview is based around pointing at people continuously and saying “well they are lazy, that worker looks lazy, that other worker looks lazy too” at a certain point your worldview cannot explain reality. Most humans need to do something productive and meaningful in order to not become intensely depressed, if your worldview tells you all those people are lazy that means your worldview is missing big chunks of reality. There are exceptions of course, but when you write off large groups of people as “just lazy” you are universally, always just being a dumbass who is probably playing right into the hands of bigots or capitalists who want to crush you just as bad as the people you look down on.
You're attacking me to accept shittier service? Fuck that. I've worked in food and have been paid minimum wage. I can identify lazy when I see it. You're just a bigot making conjectures and attacking people for not accepting bullshit service. Get the fuck outta here with that shit
Well you sound like a miserable person, glad you get shitty service : )
Also how on earth am I acting like a bigot here?
I find it interesting that there's been this vocal movement to "100%" eliminate tipping across the board. It's worked very well for us for generations until now. I don't think tipping is the problem.
The problems include services that inflate prices and want fees on top of tipping (DoorDash), customer-facing point-of-sale systems making it easier to prompt for tips (Square. Toast), and the general drive towards and acceptance of consumerism allowing for all these things to take place (plastic and mobile over cash). Not to mention inflated costs of living and stagnant wages.
Tipping in and of itself is fine. It's a win-win-win for the consumer, the worker, and the business. But it's insulting and a hinderance on the consumer in the context of all that's going on in the world today. In this regard, I share in the frustration.
If you were to make a stand and choose not to tip at a restaurant, your immediate impact is going to be on the worker who relies on that tip to support themselves and their family. Collectively, this movement is going to hurt the lives of individuals and potentially impact the local economies.
I share the belief that businesses should pay their workers a fair wage. However, in the restaurant industry, the businesses who've tried this have largely failed. Paying a fast-casual dinning or fine dinning worker the same as a McDonald's worker isn't going to bode well for customers expecting a higher level of customer service. Of course, this opens the conversation to the minimum wage laws and what's proper in this regard.
I agree somewhat that we should "strike" on restaurants and food delivery. But I say so in favor of us being more self reliant on ourselves rather than constantly being consumers of other's goods and services. Eating out / ordering in should not be something that we're doing so often that it's impacting our personal finances. It should be done in moderation (at most) and afford us the opportunity to pay those doing the work for us a fair compensation for their efforts. Our money should going towards people, not companies - certainly not DD.
What I'd like to see a measure on is consumerism and compensation in the US compared to countries that don't have tipping. I wonder if non-tipping countries eat out / order in less and if they have different regulations about fees. I'd also like to see a measure on the average wage and income compared to living costs. So, is someone working at Applebees (for example) in the US making relatively the same in the UK when accounting for their cost of living? How much do Americans spend on leisure, what do we define as leisure, compared to other countries? How do government support systems compare? What does the tax structure look like? I'm just not so sure it's a fair 1:1 comparison if you want to do what other countries are doing (not to say I oppose those systems).
I like tipping. I refuse to be nickel and dimed. I have a bigger problem with streaming services constantly raising their prices and inflated DD and Ticketmaster fees than I do tipping. Canceling all my streaming services, my Prime account, my DD account (and eating out less) affords me a bit more money to be a good tipper. Paying in cash sometimes gets me a discount and allows me to have a more positive impact on wait staff.
I see the non-tangible appification of payment as a bigger problem - and I see rampant consumerism as the primary issue. And I believe the government knows this. They're pushing towards a cashless society because they know how easy it is to thoughtlessly click a button to transfer money from one entity to another.
See most nations outside the US
Then wages can be set to match the establishment and expected level of customer service.
I've eaten at restaurants outside the US and prices are not ridiculous. However, US businesses assert they'd need to be. If it's truly going to set prices outside the affordable range for US customers I'd like to compare restaurant balance sheets inside vs. outside the US. What is costing US restaurants so much money that they have to pay their employees so poorly?
I think you are giving business owners too much credit with your questions. Businesses and the rich like to spread FUD that anything taking any money from their pockets will destroy the economy.
Much like Covid showed us that working from home was totally doable for many office jobs, I’m sure some some forced elimination of tipping would show that it’s completely possible to adjust to that change.
I’ve already responded to your comment in my comment that you’ve commented on.