this post was submitted on 28 Dec 2023
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Saying do it without proton or wine in response is insane, it's like saying "Now do it without your gpu plugged in." They aren't native Linux, but who cares as long as they run well.
The few games with problematic anticheat are a deal issue though.
No, there no equivalent because windows doesn't need third party interpretors for AAA gaming software
Delete the win32 API and DirectX DLL files (which is basically all WINE is replicating) and see how well Windows plays your games then!
I'll delete what my system is having to replicate and you do too, let's see who can run games.
I simply don't care. Games run fine under proton, why should I?
It's not even extra work you have to do, steam handles pretty much all of it.
You don't have to care, but don't expect others not to just because you're OK with a substandard experience. If you're OK eating shit that's fine, but don't trytell me it's chocolate when I'm holding real chocolate.
Proton simply does not deliver a meaningfully substandard experience. Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it's worse. I'd bet the majority of steam deck users don't even know what it is.
Most games take a slight performance hit, so small you won't notice unless you're watching the numbers. Some games even have better performance on proton than native windows.
Why do you think it's substandard?
areweanticheatyet.com
Oof.
and 16 pages that all look like this:
So, if you're really dedicated about playing a game with anticheat that doesn't natively support Linux, and even dual booting isn't an option, virtual machines are. In particular, Linux has a feature neither MacOS nor Windows share called KVM, which essentially lets you loan physical components to the VM, giving it full use of them and cutting them off from the host PC. This lets VMs running on Linux compete on a level equivalent to a similar OS, natively installed on the same hardware, and absolutely smokes the benchmarks of Windows- and MacOS-hosted VMs.
And they can be a pain to set up, but once you get one up and running, there are exactly 3 games on that list that you can't get up and running, Valorant, CS:GO(ESEA) and CS:GO(Faceit). The latter two of which were recently bought out with Saudi blood money, and the former demands a control freak level of access over your PC to even run.
It is personal opinions, not compatibility, that keeps me from playing fortnite (Tim Sweeney will never be forgiven for doing his hardest to kill the Unreal series, and fortnite skins being a source of modern childhood bullying is despicable) with one friendship group and destiny 2 (might actually be a good game if it wasn't designed to be a black hole of money and time that deletes its own back-catalogue of content regularly, Sony pls fire Bungie's incompetent management already) with the another.
Cool, while you're doing THAT I'll be playing the games.
Oh wow, a nice cherry picked list that goes over the issue I said still needs to be fixed.
Meanwhile let's compare what people are actually playing. Of the top 1000 games on steam, 34 don't work.
Now how about all of steam? Oh, looks like it keeps the same rate.
Windows is similar, it's just old games you'll run into issues with, which incidentally often work better on proton.
The issue that needs to be fixed is the entire problem. Or did you skip over the first part of the thread?
Just skip over the part where it's 3 percent of games that don't work, not 40.
Also, please explain how your response makes sense in this conversation:
Person: "Linux gaming has gotten really good lately"
You: "Try it without proton" (This implies you think there's something wrong with games running on proton even if they're working)
Me: "Why, proton works?"
You: "It's a substandard experience"
Me: "There's a few games it doesn't run, but for the ones it does how is it substandard?"
You: "Games don't run" (this doesn't address your issues with proton, the games that do run only do so because of proton, without it and wine it'd be a million times worse)
Basically every response of yours seems like you're bitter people like something you don't. Literally every gamer acknowledges anticheat is a problem still, there's no point in discussing it here. Nobody's trying to force you to switch to Linux.
If you want to actually discuss the technical merits and downsides of proton, wine, dxvk, etc. I'm happy to, but if you're just going to be bitter about people enjoying things, please seek out a therapist.
So you agree with me?
No
Then you shouldn't type things that agree with me.
Like 2/3 of your replies fail basic reading comprehension, no rational person would read that and think it's agreeing with you.
But it exactly details all the ways that Linux is insufficient. No. The failure of comprehension is on your side of the bell curve. You might want to pick up a dictionary and find out what the word substandard means and stop deliberately misinterpreting my statements out of belligerence. Or maybe the lack of reading comprehension fits squarely on your shoulders.
2018 called, they want their games back.
Yeah, they're benchmarks from a while ago.
This was already the case in 2018, it certainly hasn't gotten worse.
You out here comparing windows to real chocolate?
No, I'm comparing Linux to hershe's, they're trying to compare hershe's to real chocolate.
Just wanted to add that in my experience, Castlevania lord of shadows was unplayable due to graphical bugs on windows, but flawless through proton (that didn't need any setup btw)
If we're talking about substandard experiences, then Windows overall is definitely one to Linux once you stop trying to treat Linux like Windows-lite and learn to treat it as its own thing.
You don't even have package managers (what smartphone app stores are a pale imitation of), you get motherfucking ads in your start menus, your desktop customisation options are paltry at best and half of them are locked behind a paywall, your OS gobbles RAM and processing power like a stoner with the munchies, it's absolutely littered with baked-in bad decisions from the 90s, hundreds of millions of devices are locked out of future upgrades, and the amount of telemetry built-in could easily be called spyware.
Linux may be difficult to learn and have areas with spotty compatibility, but she'll run on a toaster, is totally free, is infinitely customisable (https://lemmy.world/c/unixporn, alas the subreddit is still bigger but I'm not linking that shit here) and highly modular, answers to you and you alone, and can do an entire system update in the background with a single command. There are many reasons why Linux has pushed Windows out of the supercomputer, server, IoT, smartphone, and now AI fields (and sibling BSD Unix holds sway over mainframes and most console OSes, like the Switch and last three Playstations). Desktop PCs are just about the only place where the Windows marketshare still eclipses Linux.
Cool, well while you're wondering why your toaster doesn't have native drivers I'll continue using the better product. I've used Linux, been using pc's longer than most of the people pushing Linux have been alive. You still won't convince me second tier is first tier.
Why do you feel so threatened by Linux just existing? We're not going to take Windows away from you
I'm not the one trying to gaslight about the failures of my chosen OS. Why are you scared of reality?
My sister in Christ, even Microsoft has admitted that Linux can do things their own OS cannot, and now gives all Windows installations the ability to run it in parallel, to the point of rewriting how their own OS works to accommodate it. WSL2 literally runs at the same layer as the Windows NT kernel itself. They've started releasing tools of their own that will not work on a purely Windows system, but require WSL2, in order to even function. All of Azure runs on a Linux backbone. They've made their own distros for internal use. And knowing how hard they are going to push AI with Windows 12, WSL3 might graduate from optional feature to absolutely mandatory part of Windows. All the PCs that can't do the necessary virtualisation were filtered out by the Windows 11 requirements, after all.
This from the company that tried to destroy Linux for years, tried to kill it with UEFI, SecureBoot, FUD and sponsoring lawsuits against the Linux Foundation. Why does your vendetta continue when even theirs has faded and been replaced by a wholehearted embrace?
I bet you can't do that on Linux. You're not disproving my point in the way you think you are. Don't misinterpret the truth as a vendetta, that's wilfully ignorant and intellectually disingenuous.
Is Linux better than is was? Yes. Is it better than windows? 3% desktop marketshare says no.
I see you've also let your autism get the better of you.
Anyway, nothing you can say or do will stop me from continuing to use the impending threat of Windows 11 to get as many friends as I can to start switching to Linux, and given that they're all ADHD/autistic furries with a pre-existing interest in tech, I expect they'll all handle the transition very well. "Keeps the amount of yiff on your hard drives between you and God" is a major selling point there, and unlike TempleOS, Linux actually works very well on modern hardware.
Anyway, I have no intention of continuing this argument.
Lmao, check your ego. You're the one gaslighting about your chosen OS. It's software not your God or your personality.
If self awareness was a disease you'd be the healthiest person alive.
Isn't that the whole point of an internet argument, though? To get angry, turn your higher thinking off and yell at each other like big territorial lizards until someone gets bored and no longer has an interest in continuing?
(and yes I have gotten bored + actually have things to do now, so the anger has subsided and replaced by "why am I doing this again?")
It's been shown by research that almost nobody has their mind changed by these things, and logically it holds up, you're arguing with someone you have no emotional connection to, over something you have different opinions about and both have strong emotions towards. Also, often there will be a difference of value judgements, that determine to a person which objective facts matter, whether they're positive or negative, and which don't matter/"are just the cost of doing business" (e.g. you clearly treat compatibility as vitally important, I don't really care as long as most things work decently enough, and the Amish treat it as a negative, because to them a computer should be nothing more than a word processor and a calculator, everything else is a superfluous distraction), and value judgements are always subjective.
As an example, the great tragedy of vegans is that they're as close to objectively correct as you can be with a value judgement, that the animal industry is objectively responsible for almost a fifth of global greenhouse gas emissions while consuming vast amounts of land that could be used for growing crops for people (I believe the estimation is 6-7x as much land used for animal agriculture as plant agriculture once you account for feed crops), and if we don't destroy it soon we're headed for a vast amount of human suffering from climate change and famine. But you would be hard-pressed to find someone who has been turned vegan or even vegetarian by an internet argument, because a) a lot of people value their beef and bacon over the suffering of other people they've never met, and b) almost everyone has an emotional attachment to their current diet, which they perceive vegans as "threatening" (which admittedly they are, but for very good reasons), and so go on the offensive, morality be damned.
In my own experience, living with one + reading up on how much the animal industry is fucking the planet did far more to convince me than a thousand internet arguments with vegans I didn't know and never interacted with again, and even then, I still don't have the willpower and self-restraint to go fully vegan or even vegetarian, just greatly meat-reduced.
Cool story bro.
It's the equivalent of saying "now run directx under linux" It's literally insane.
There's OpenDX, which seems cool, but my understanding is it'd have to be implemented in the game not just on a system, so why bother doing that over Vulkan.