this post was submitted on 24 Jan 2024
209 points (96.0% liked)

Political Memes

5510 readers
1781 users here now

Welcome to politcal memes!

These are our rules:

Be civilJokes are okay, but don’t intentionally harass or disturb any member of our community. Sexism, racism and bigotry are not allowed. Good faith argumentation only. No posts discouraging people to vote or shaming people for voting.

No misinformationDon’t post any intentional misinformation. When asked by mods, provide sources for any claims you make.

Posts should be memesRandom pictures do not qualify as memes. Relevance to politics is required.

No bots, spam or self-promotionFollow instance rules, ask for your bot to be allowed on this community.

founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
 
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] [email protected] 6 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (1 children)

I don't think "yeah his actions kinda sucked but maybe he would have changed if he kept living" is a reasonable argument.

And I said radical reconstruction. Like land seized from slavers and given to the newly freed people (and keep conditions such that the freed people could actually keep that land), former confederates jailed and barred from ever holding office, reparations paid, etc.

Grant was still soft on Confederates, though certainly better in most aspects than Lincoln or Johnson. But a president does not a country make. Perhaps despite Grant the measures taken during his presidency were woefully inadequate and blunted.

As far as his treatment of indigenous peoples, well this quote from his first inaugural address is enough really. "the proper treatment of the original occupants of the land, the Indian, is one deserving of careful study. I will favor any course towards them which tends to their civilization, Christianization and ultimate citizenship"

When it turned out that hey, maybe the destruction of their culture and religion isn't really what they wanted- Grant's feelings were quite clear in this 1872 letter to General Schofield: “Indians who will not put themselves under the restraints required will have to be forced, even to the extent of making war upon them, to submit to measures that will insure [sic] security to the white settlers of the Territories,” - this is still absolutely genocide.

He was also the President under which the US stole the Black Hills in what is now South Dakota. First he offered to "buy" them from the Lakota and other tribes, and then when refused he sent the army in to steal them. (Though the tribes put up a damn good fight, repelling the invaders once before Grant sent reinforcements)

[–] [email protected] 2 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (1 children)

I don't think there's going to be any common ground between us in this discussion, but as someone with a keen interest in the period, I'll leave it that I disagree strongly with the main thrust of your argument.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 10 months ago

Points for civility in vehement disagreement.