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this post was submitted on 04 Feb 2024
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They were definitely terrorist actions, not sure about war crimes. But what the IDF are doing is definitely war crimes.
Attacking civilian targets and taking civilian hostages are both very unambiguously war crimes.
Not if you say the civilian targets are hamas' hideouts and the hostages are detainees.
taps head
That's the thing, though-- military service is compulsory in Israel at the age of 18. There are certainly conscientious objectors who don't serve, and the compulsory draft excludes some but not all women; but the line between civilian and soldier in Israel is blurry, not clear-cut like it is in countries without mandatory military service.
On the other hand, there is no compulsory military service in Palestine because the Oslo II accord does not allow Palestinians to have a standing army, air force, or navy.
I agree, but despite this, we know that many civilians were taken and killed, including kids and elderly who cannot possibly be serving in any military.
The line is blurry for elderly people, too. Sam Colt made all people equal when it comes to capacity for personal violence.
I agree with you that killing young children is reprehensible, and I hope that consequences occur for each of the individuals responsible for the deaths of 36 Israeli children. I hold the same hopes for each of the individuals responsible for the deaths of over 10,000 Palestinian children.
I hope you'll forgive me for giving most of my mental energy to the slaughter that is actively ongoing and much greater in scope.
So you do understand that Hamas commited war crimes and that Israel did as well and that we should evenly condemn those that are killing innocent children and babies and not try to sweep that under the rug by using evasive language correct?
Do not be one of those people who give any semblance of cover to Israel or Hamas.
All you are doing is giving ammo to the people who love to point out such things to influence neutral people.
Do not hurt the cause.
Fuck Hamas and their kidnapping and killing innocents.
Think about this, they could have freely returned any children the next day, or even at the first prisoner exchange for free to show everyone that they do not want to harm innocents in any way.
How much of a moral standing and victory would that have given them?
We could have pointed at every innocent child killed and say “Look Hamas is sparing the children while Israel continues to kill them. See what they are saying is true.”
But they didn’t!
The fucking cowards are continuing to hold children hostage.
They aren’t any better, they just don’t have the ability to do it at scale like Israel.
Fuck them both for every innocent child that is dead or will forever be traumatized by this.
I don't know what you think "the cause" is, or what cover you think I'm giving to Israel or Hamas. Israel understands that might makes right and that no one will try to stop them because the US backs them. Hamas understands that you cannot "moral standing" your way out from under the thumb of an oppressor because if the oppressor believed in "moral standing" then they would not be an oppressor in the first place.
Morality is great, but material conditions do not care about your or my ideology.
Can I quote you? This is a good explanation of the situation imo.
Sure
They don’t need to beat Israel, they just need to defeat the support Israel has from allies
Israel has killed 10,000 children since October 7th. That has not ostracized them from their allies. What do you think will?
I don’t know.
But when you give your enemies the chance to say “Look, they kidnapped babies and are holding them hostage.” The level that it will have to reach will be much higher.
Example: it takes 100 ostracization units to reach that limit because you have raised it by having kidnapped babies and foreign nationals, whereas if you had given back the people that had nothing to do with this, it might be at a level 10 ostracization units.
It’s a lot easier to justify bad things happening too bad people dependent on the level of bad that they are, and baby kidnappers are pretty high on the list.
Now that group that captured a bunch of people that had nothing to do with it, but then immediately release them?
That shows that they are not trying to involve innocents and that whenever they do get caught up in it is obviously an accident and will be remedied as soon as possible.
You can justify bombing, baby killers, way easier than legitimate freedom fighters.
Really think about this now, and not just because you think we’re on opposing sides here because fuck Israel and everything they stay in for right now.
Just think about how much easier it would be for Hamas to have support and Israel to look that much worse, even though they are conducting the same actions, if they were not holding innocent people.
Notice nowhere in there did I say that they would need to release Israeli soldiers, those are legitimate targets.
It can be sort of hazy on who exactly qualifies for that in Israel, because of conscription, but we can damn sure say that those babies in for nationals had nothing to do with it, and that we would all be way more supportive of Hamas, if not more down on Israel.
At the end of the day they made the decision that shitty people would make.
They crossed the line from freedom fighters to terrorists.
This is ignoring the Rockets, because they have the iron dome and most of the time it is just costing Israel money to shoot down a fucking rocket.
Legitimate military tactic, trading a cheap rocket for an expensive iron dome missile and hurting your enemies economy.
Sort of underhanded because the part might hurt an innocent person put the chances of that are low and it’s asymmetric warfare.
Since you have a blurry excuse for everything : what about killed foreigners, whom aren't Israeli neither jew ?
I don't think you're asking this question in good faith, so I'm not going to engage in a conversation with you. Have a good morning!
Still war crimes, they kidnapped babies and children