this post was submitted on 18 Jul 2023
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Privacy is like the least important reason I use Firefox. With Microsoft Edge and Opera being based on Chromium now there are just so many of them. With Chromium essentially becoming the de facto standard because everyone uses it that means Google can ignore web standards and just do whatever they want.
It means Google can set the web standards, which is worse.
Competitors dont have to inherit those tho just because they are based on chromium.
It's easier to inherit because it's less dev time spent on a part of the browser that has less evident results for the consumer. I bet they'd rather spend money on the UX provided by UI changes rather than reworking the JavaScript engine, or anything related HTML or CSS rendering.
There's no reason a Chromium fork can't conform to other web standards.
Are they doing so right now?
Who is "they"?
Come on. You're being pedantic.
...I'm not being pedantic at all. There are literally hundreds of them, each with their own programming.
What are the important reasons?
Everything else I said, sorry if that wasn't clear!
Essentially there are organizations like W3C and IEEE that define standards for how the internet works and how websites behave. All browsers follow these so everything works properly. Let's say you have some idea you want to add to your browser you develop. You do it and tell everyone about it. You don't have many users. Maybe a few sites do it but it isn't really a problem that it doesn't work on other browsers because so few people do it.
Chromium has a massive market share because so many browsers use it as their base. Even Opera and Microsoft Edge which historically have been alternatives to Google Chrome now use Chromium as their base. The danger is that Chromium has such a large user base that they are essentially what the standard is.
Imagine a world where everyone uses Chromium. Why would you (if you were in charge of Chromium) need to listen to what standards organizations say about how the web should work? You're literally in charge of every browser! You can just add some new features or take some out and every website would have to comply because you (in this hypothetical) truly do control every single web browser on the planet. Their websites would not work otherwise.
Sure, out of the goodness of your heart you might behave and be a good steward but there will always be reasons for you to act against the standards that you don't view as "bad" that other people might think are bad. I'm not saying all standards organizations are perfect and good or anything like that, but I believe I trust them more than Google.
Even if Google never does anything "bad" (naive thinking lol) avoiding the situation where they have that kind of power is a good thing.
To me that's the most important reason to use a non-Chromium based browser. To avoid Chromium becoming the one true browser.
And just for some context, Google has done bad things before with regards to web standards and then having the de facto standard with Chrome. The recent changes to the extension API to neuter ad blocking being a prime example. And we don't even have to speculate and sound like nutjobs. They're a public company. They've said before that ad-blocking is one of the biggest threats to their ad revenue. Not that it feels tin foil hatty to suggest even if they hadn't said it, but they actually have said it in reports.
Too bad those organizations kept dragging their feet, writing standards by committee and making them unimplementable, pushing stuff like XHTML that nobody in their sane mind wanted... until the WHATWG called quits on them and focused on a working living standard: a reference free open source browser that anyone could just copy+paste to meet the standard.
Nowadays we call that "Chromium".
No actually we don't. Chromium isn't a reference implementation. And while XHTML was handled poorly the idea behind it was actually very interesting. Didn't pan out and was buried years ago. So what.
Could fool me, since it implements all WHATWG standards... or is it the other way around?
XHTML didn't just "not pan out"; the W3C kept beating its dead horse carcass, like it did with many others. The W3C didn't pan out and was handled poorly, even though the idea behind it was actually very interesting.
Why do you believe Google would not be able to ignore the WHATWG the same way they could ignore other standards organizations if they controlled the entire browser market?
Well, for starters the WHATWG listens to Google, not the other way around. And yeah, they do "control" the entire "browser market", or more precisely, the part they care about: how to show ads.
Then you're just agreeing but saying it's already happened.
That's one way of seeing it.
I don't agree with the W3C or IEEE defining the standards anymore, or with Chromium becoming a "de facto" standard; the whole point of creating the WHATWG was to explicitly ditch the W3C, make Chromium into the basis for a living standard... and everyone clapped (except for some die hards who didn't get the memo).
Yeah, I see, I was just trying to list some examples of such standardization bodies I'm talking about. Don't view it as some implicit approval over others I didn't mention.
That it allows Google to destroy the open internet by changing the standards until non-Chromium browsers can't engage with the web.
Oh yeah I fully get that. I think that’s very important too. The reason why I asked is because I thought there was a nifty feature I wasn’t aware of.
Im glad the websites have a saying in this. If google also owns these all then we are TRULY fucked.
Unfortunately, no, they don't. As Chromium gets more and more wide spread, Google is gaining the power to change the browser standards. Websites will have to comply. If your website suddenly "Breaks" because Google won't allow Chromium load any pages without tracking tags, users will complain to you and not google.
Yeah tech illiteracy is a thing thats true. Once they realize that its their browser that breaks their shit they will just pick a different one. Thats what i mean with google owning all the websites.
Good joke.
You know what happens if a customer complains your website doesn't work in Chrome? A bug ticket is raised, goes to a developer and they fix the "bug" so it works again.
If the developer is good they'd also make sure their "fix" doesn't break the website for Firefox and Safari. But there are plenty of developers who only test Chrome and call it a day.
Chrome is the default browser nowadays, if it doesn't work in Chrome you have a problem. The developer might blame Google, but the user and management won't care.
Thats fine. Because it means the websites are ok with what chrome is doing and it doesnt hurt them. No joke bro...
Decisions are not always good. ~Cherri
I don't think they will. I think corporations - Who make decisions the same way soulless psychopaths would - will bend.
Using Chromium supports the destruction of the open internet.
unpopular opinion: chromium is a genuinely good thing for everyone involved. Just because chrome gets all the bitches and can dictate stuff doesnt mean chromium will break the competitions will to have their own programmers make their own fork.
It can and will because Chromium only exists as a weapon for google to use to improve their level of control.