this post was submitted on 23 Apr 2024
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In other words: "Because I'm not bothered by X, neither should you be".
I don't think that's a reasonable paraphrase of my argument. I think you're perfectly entitled to be bothered by things like loot boxes in gaming. I am more than troubled by their implementation in a lot of games aimed at children, like I imagine a lot of us are.
That is a far cry from saying "gaming is ruined", and that's really my entire point. One or even several things you're bothered by existing doesn't mean that the entire industry or state of gaming is in any way "ruined".
you're defending the indefensible. Modern gaming is largely shit. games are boring, with little to no replay value other than "seasons". Games are regularly released in total shit show conditions only to be patched later. Your argument of 'we have so much more' is a bad one as it doesn't matter how many games we have available, if the large majority of them are garbage or in a garbage state. of course the more shit you throw at the wall, the more will eventually stick. Baldur's Gate is a once in a generation game.
I just don't agree that the majority of games are garbage or in a garbage state. There are plenty of good games coming out. I've listed several in this thread. Baldur's Gate is a once in a generation game. So is Elden Ring. So is Outer Wilds. Not being exhaustive here, just some of my favorites. How many "once in a generation" games are required before we can admit that there are good options out there? The state of gaming should not be defined by its lows, but by the whole.
Hey, listen though, I'm just here to have a discussion, not trying to change your mind. There is a lot of bad going on in video games, and I don't like it either. This is really a matter of perspective at the end of the day, so there's no right or wrong answer here.
You're listing games over a year old. Steam had over 14k new releases in 23. There's maybe 10 good games in any given year, and generally less than 3 great games. They are absolutely swimming in a pool od shit games.
It's a matter of perspective, I suppose, and I was really just naming semi-recent games that I enjoyed, so I assumed I didn't need to be exhaustive of every "good" game that has come out to satisfy the argument. There are hundreds of McDonald's for every French Laundry, dozens of Marvel and adaption movies for every Best Picture winner, and the same applies to games.
I genuinely insist that you focus on that pool of shitty games if you want to. I can see how concerned you and a lot of others in this thread would be, because that is only going to grow as development becomes more accessible. I'm going to focus on the high points, play the good indies in currently backed up on, and have a good time. I don't expect that supply to dry up any time soon.
point proven.
Please read the rest of the sentence you quoted.
I wouldn't consider Outer Wilds a "once in a generation" game. I was a lack luster space shooter. Elden Ring is right on that edge, good, great even, but it's difficulty limits the player base. But you're just naming recent "GOTY" candidates. Of course those ones are good. You've named 3-5 games that are "good". how many shit games come out that are absolute trash? For every Elden Ring there are 15 trash knockoffs on Steam. For every Outer Wilds, there is an "Anthem". "just some of MY favorites", again, you're using YOUR bias to try and prove your point. I know many gamers who didn't like Baldur's Gate, Elden Ring, or Outer Wilds because they aren't "multiplayer" in the way that say, Helldivers or Conan or Apex are. Throw enough shit at the wall and something's going to stick. There's a reason emulators are so big. Old games had a certain charm that makes them almost infinitely replayable. People today can pick up Super Mario Bros and have a ball. Mario 3 is one of the best games ever made. Super Metroid is a masterpiece. None of these games had to resort to "seasons" or "loot boxes". They delivered full, complete games. Publishers today just bank on DLC and "games as a service" to make money instead of making a fun, complete game. I get bug fixes, sure. Games today are far more complex than they ever have been. Season passes, Battle passes, DLC, Loot boxes, skins, etc all drive at the point being made here. Modern gaming isn't about the game its about how much the publisher can get into your wallet. THAT is why modern gaming sucks.
You're confusing Outer Worlds and Outer Wilds (no big deal, I have to remind myself constantly lol). Trust me, Outer Wilds is a once in a generation game, at least for some of us.
I don't really see how you can on one hand accuse me of using my biases and then turn around and say that three GOTY candidates are not actually all that great because you know some people who didn't like them all that much. That feels inconsistent to me. I was also never arguing that gaming is in a great place because I like these games, but rather just because these were highly-rated (on average by both users and critics).
I have additionally addressed multiple times that I am by no means saying that there are not bad games being released or that there are not problematic patterns, especially in the AAA space. Seeing all these arguments about loot boxes and season passes when I have explicitly mentioned that digging past that layer of titles is necessary to find the good games (which I have listed non-exhaustive examples of above) is just giving me the impression that you are not truly wanting to engage with the core conceit here. You seem very passionate about this and there's nothing wrong with that, but honestly, I'm not a huge fan of your argument style and I think I'd rather just agree to disagree on this very inconsequential topic. Feel free to respond, but I will likely not reply to your next response.
No, I'm not confusing them. There's nothing once in a generation about either one to be frank. they are fine games, better than most, but in no way would I define either one a once in a generation game.
You're putting words into my mouth. If anyone is arguing in poor faith here it's you. I didn't say those games were bad, I said there are people that didn't like them. and you LITERALLY did say gaming was good because you liked those games and they were good in YOUR opinion. I like all those games. Baldur's gate was one of the best games I can remember playing. Elden ring was amazing after i got over the difficulty curve.
the issue YOU'RE not seeing here is you keep defending these AAA titles with loot boxes and everything by "digging past" it. What do all the GOTY titles we've spoke about have in common? no loot boxes. no seasons. none of that bullshit. there is no concessions to be made. your argument of "gaming is in a good place because there are a couple good games that you have to dig to find" is flawed. There is ALWAYS going to be games that rise to the top. always. the point of the original article is that we are in a crap time in gaming, not because there are not ANY good games, but because the majority of what's being released relies on Loot boxes, seasons, etc to make money instead of making and selling a GOOD game FIRST. The majority of games being released are made with a "service" in mind, be it season passes, battle passes, loot boxes, nickel and diming players to death.
and your "stab" about "you seem very passionate" is a bullshit line. that entire last paragraph is a cop-out because you have no argument that makes sense and you know it so you're "bowing out of the conversation" in a sad attempt to save face. Feel free to respond but I likely don't give a shit.
WELL I'm NOT very PASSIONATE about IT either.
You sure do argue in good faith buddy, for sure. You can even admit when you made a common tiny mistake that I gave you every bit of grace on!
Your paragraphs are just badly-formatted run-on thoughts that don't even accurately address my points, you completely misunderstand what I mean by "dig through", you confront random asides instead of the central point I'm making, and you manage to show your ass harder than anyone else in this thread. Wasn't even here to argue, just wanted to have a discussion on gaming and everyone else here managed to disagree with me politely and just discuss without being a raging asshole. All of that is why I didn't want to continue my argument with you.
Right, so your rebuttal is trying to attack ME, not my argument. The mask is off now buddy.
You still haven't addressed my argument? I'll wait for that message. To be clear, here it is: While there ARE a multitude of bad games with bad practices out there, particularly in the AAA space, there has NEVER been a more accessible period for indies and AA studios to create games. This has led to an EXPLOSION of solid games without predatory practices. All told, I believe there are MORE of these good AA/indie options than there were good AAA options in the past. I listed some of my favorite above (NON-EXHAUSTIVELY and only as EXAMPLES, not as a basis for my argument, which you ignored TIME and TIME again to set up your STRAWMAN). These games were also highly rated by the industry as a whole, which is why we're talking about them at all. Of course, this entire discussion is SUBJECTIVE, so there will always be people who despair at the given state of any industry. I though, believe there are PLENTY of fantastic, non-predatory, non-loot-boxed, non-season-passed, highly rated games out there. The fact that there are also a large number of bad games out there too DOES NOT HURT ME if I don't play them and I have those good options to play. FOR ME, that's why gaming is in a good state. And to drive another point home, I'M NOT TRYING TO CHANGE YOUR MIND! Hate it if you want. I was just trying to discuss the topic, not have a big fight with a stranger on the internet.