this post was submitted on 04 Aug 2023
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I heard something to do with Nitrogen and …cow farts(?) I am really unsure of this and would like to learn more.

Answer -

4 Parts

  • Ethical reason for consuming animals
  • Methane produced by cows are a harmful greenhouse gas which is contributing to our current climate crisis
  • Health Reasons - there is convincing evidence that processed meats cause cancer
  • it takes a lot more calories of plant food to produce the calories we would consume from the meat.

Details about the answers are in the comments

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[–] [email protected] 36 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Because you need considerably more resources to grow meat than you need to to grow a nutritionally equivalent amount of vegetables.

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[–] [email protected] 21 points 1 year ago (1 children)
  • Ethical reasons: hundreds of billions of animals are killed every year (not counting fish), after living a miserable and short life.
  • Environmental: greenhouse emissions (CO2 and methane), deforestation for pastures, water pollution, are all caused by animal agriculture. If everyone went vegan we'd need only 25% of the land we currently use for agriculture.
  • Health: there is some evidence that meat causes cancer, and convincing evidence that processed meat causes cancer. Also, the use of antibiotics for animals can lead to the development of antibiotic-resistant bacteria.

Cow farts are methane, which are a more aggressive form of greenhouse gas, though with shorter lifespan.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 year ago (1 children)

For the cancer risk, this is the pertinent info:

An analysis of data from 10 studies estimated that every 50 gram portion of processed meat eaten daily increases the risk of colorectal cancer by about 18%.

That's about half a hot dog. Seeing as the news isn't exploding, this means that this is relative risk. Meaning your current chances of getting colorectal cancer is X. Eating a hot dog every other day continuously multiples your chance by 1.18. American Cancer Society states that over their lifetime, 1 in 23 men (4.35%) of men will develop colorectal cancer. This means if you ate 1 hot dog every other day continuously, a man's odds of contracting colorectal cancer changes from 4.35% to 5.13% over their lifetime.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

That's just for colorectal cancer. It also affects other types of cancer (like breast cancer) and increases the chance of dying from heart disease considerably.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago

But there weren't any good numbers on those I saw in there. Which is why I ignored the entire "meat" claim as it didn't list useful metrics. "Might cause cancer" doesn't really help anyone. There only seemed to be useful data about processed meat and colorectal cancer.

[–] [email protected] 12 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Most tree and forest loss is from making land for grazing.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 year ago (18 children)

Not for grazing but for crops that are fed to animals in animal agriculture.

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[–] [email protected] 9 points 1 year ago (1 children)

To learn more about the environmental impact of meat consumption, I recommend this Our World in Data article: https://ourworldindata.org/environmental-impacts-of-food

I would highlight this chart: https://ourworldindata.org/environmental-impacts-of-food#interactive-charts-on-environmental-impacts-of-food-production

For example, getting 100 g of protein from beef emits ~ 50 kg of CO2. Getting 100 g of protein from tofu only emits ~ 2 kg of CO2.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

animals are fed parts of plants that people can't or won't eat. all of the studies about the ecological impacts ignore this fact and then attribute the water used to produce, say, cotton to beef.

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[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Ask the cow what she thinks?

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago (1 children)
[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago

The main issue is probably less meat itself than the ginormous quantities we consume.

Most livestock farming is intensive, meaning they can't rely on grazing alone and need extra food sources, typically corn. They emit methane, a greenhousing gas on steroids.

That grain is produced through very intensive agricultural methods because we can't get enough of it. It consumes ridiculously large amount of water and slowly degrades the soils. Nitrates eventually end up in the sea, causing algea to proliferate while other lifeforms are suffocated. See the dead zone in Mexico's gulf.

71% of agriculture land in Europe is dedicated to livestock feeding.

The percentage must be similar or higher in America, and don't count North America alone: without grains from Brazil, we're dead. Period. So next time you hear the world blaming Brazil for deforestation, keep in mind that a large share of it is to sustain livestocks...

Cattle farming in the USA is heavily subsidized, by allowing farmers to use federal land for grazing for free (I believe something similar is in place in Canada?). The claim they "take care of the land" is absurd: nature has been doing that for millenias without needing any help. First nations have been living in these lands also without supersized cows herds and it was going alright. Farms actually prevent wildlife to take back its place.

But I wouldn't blame them. People in North America (among others, and I live in Canada, definitely me too) eat indecent and unhealthy quantities of meat, and that has to come from somewhere.

Now, simple math will tell you: if everyone in the world was consuming meat in the same quantities as us, there would'nt be enough suitable land on Earth to grow the corn that needs to go with it.

Another thing is not all meats are equal in terms of pollution. From the worst to the least bad, in equivalent kgCO2 per kg of meat you can actually eat: -Veal: 37 -Chicken (intensive, in cage): 18 -Beef: 34 -Pork: 5--7 -Duck, rabbit, pork: 4--5 -Chicken ("traditonal, free range): 3--4 -Egg (for comparison): <2

You can appreciate the orders of magnitude!

There are only 2 ways out of this:

  • reduce meat consumption, and pick it right
  • grown meat (meat made without the animal around it, in machines)

One can be done today, starting with your next meal. We don't need meat every meal, we don't even need meat every day, but it is true that going full vegetarian force a certain gymnastic to get all the nutriments one need.

The other solution is barely getting there, so there are still unknown (food quality, resources consumption, etc.) and the economics may not help it taking off.

The third (and let's face it: current approach at national level everywhere on this issue) option is to do nothing and keep going as if the problems didn't exist. This is guaranteeing a famine in the coming decades. When we'll fail to feed our livestock, and it will start dying, it will be too late to turn around and get the whole agriculture sector to transition. These things take many years.

We're trying to reduce our meat consumption at home, or to favor the least impacting ones. We still eat too much meat, but I hope we can gradually improve.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago (4 children)

I guess my only follow up would be that if we reduce our meat consumption to a more sustainable level, that would mean that we would have to replace our protein source with something more sustainable.

Seafood maybe out of the question as I hear concerns about overfishing as it is.

I would assume that would leave plant protein, like Peanuts or something similar. Are there other sources of protein that are in development (Also major assumption that Beyond and those other meats are also based on the plant protein)

[–] [email protected] 8 points 1 year ago

Beans dude. They’re good and good for you. Also lentils are great

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago

well lab grown meat has just recently been approved for sell. So that's a major thing. But there are a lot of plant protein resources. I'm vegetarian so I eat eggs and some milk. (I actually prefer almond milk, most of my milk consumption probably comes from why protein powder cause I can't afford the plant protein powders for weight lifting). Now as someone who actually studied nutrition in college, the confusion comes from the fact that people don't factor amino acids. As my teacher said "You don't have a protein requirement, you have an amino acid requirement" once you look at it in this way, there are ways around this that we can do, but there are shortcomings as of right now (especially socio-economic) if you cut out eggs. However, it would be pretty easy to add the missing nutrients in other foods the issue comes from good ol classic capitalism issues of "efficiency and money" shit.

Honestly, some of the biggest problems we face is just a matter of focus and funding in research. There are a lot of solutions and it's honestly amazing how far we've come despite special interest groups (oil, farming trusts, etc) have worked to stunt the growth of things, so you just have to imagine what ecological, vegan, etc tech could do if it hand the same funding and backing as these other sectors. I honestly can't wait.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago (5 children)

Meat is actually not a good source of protein compared to plant proteins. Meat was a good way of turning stuff we couldn’t eat into stuff we can, but now they just feed livestock grains anyways.

Lentils have waaaayyyyyy more protein to weight.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Lentils have waaaayyyyyy more protein to weight.

But they taste like lentils :-(

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago (4 children)
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[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

Yes, pulses like peanuts, beans, lentils, as well as rice and other grains (and a variety of other vegetable sources) are alternative sources of protein. As far as development, the only thing aside from plant-based meat substitutes are the new lab-grown meats that are being developed. Those are actual meat, but grown in a lab instead of on an animal's body.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago (4 children)
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[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago

Its not bad in my world

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Unless it's meat synthesized in a lab, it requires the forced breeding, enslavement, abuse, and eventually murder of sentient animals which don't jive too well with the golden rule.

I personally could give a hoot about it's negative impacts on environment. Gd bacon memes, humanity can go extinct good riddance

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago (5 children)

you know wild animals are suffering and dying and whole species are going extinct as a result of climate change and deforestation, right? how does that jive with the golden rule in your book?

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[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

people have lots of different reasons. some don't like the idea of killing a big animal with feelings and expressiveness. some because of how farms abuse or torture animals in some countries. some think Anibal farming is worse for the environment. some have religious prohibitions. some think it's bad for your health. some people don't like the taste or can't afford it but don't want people to think they are weird so they tell purple they have a principled argument for it.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Agreed up until the last part. I think most people would accept "I don't like the taste" or "I can't afford it" sooner than a vegan argument. I've gotten some really unhinged reactions from people just by bringing the topic up. Veganism really, really triggers some people.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

yes lots of people cant understand that others can have other ideas about the world. in fact the historical norm for humans is for everyone in the same community to believe the same thing. this time of ideological diversity we live in is anomylous.

of someone says “i believe the earth is flat” most people will not accept that immediately. it's triggering.

people are triggered by alien ideas. it’s not bad. it’s just being human.

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[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Different vegetarians have different motives. Some of the more common ones include:

  • Moral concerns, e.g. about animals suffering or being killed. This is common among Buddhist vegetarians, animal-rights vegetarians, and utilitarian vegetarians.
  • Health concerns; belief that a vegetarian diet is better for one's health, whether due to substances naturally in meat (e.g. saturated fat) or introduced by industrial meat production.
  • Environment and climate concerns; that raising animals for meat is bad for the environment, contributes to climate change, is unsustainable, etc.
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[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

You're not getting many answers yet regarding nitrogen.

As a preface: When it comes to climate and environmental concerns with respect to agriculture, the word "nitrogen" does usually not refer to the completely harmless atmospheric nitrogen (N2). Instead, it refers to various compounds that contain nitrogen.

Nitrogenous pollution from cattle comes in two shapes:

The first is methane (NH3). A single cow burps and farts out about 100kg of methane each year. Methane is a greenhouse gas that's 28 times as potent as CO2. This means a single cow is responsible for as much as 2800kg equivalent in CO2 each year due to burps and farts alone. For reference, the CO2 per capita emissions globally are about 4 tons (4000kg) per year, for all sources combined. Cows, relatively speaking, therefore produce a huge amount of CO2 equivalent.

The second is all the nitrogenous compounds in their excrements. This acts as a fertilizer on soil and in the water. While that sounds good, it leads to various unwanted effects. One is that agricultural runoff causes algal blooms in water that then ends up killing a significant amount of marine life. Another is that nutrient-rich soils tend to seriously decrease plant species diversity. Many native and wild plants actually need nutrient-poor soils to thrive. Those plants will get outcompeted by a small group of fast-growing plants that do well in all the cow-poop-infested soil. These compounds also tend to travel far, via agricultural runoff or even via the air, so ecosystems far away from farms are also impacted.

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